Why should any school be forced to admit by only test scores and GPA?
H is a private institution. They should do what they want to do. They don’t “owe” the country or the world more seats, more financial aid, or a change in their admissions policies. They are a luxury good; it’s not like health care or clean water. It’s as ludicrous as suggesting that Apple “ought” to give away free iPads.
What is the compelling argument for expanded enrollment at the wealthy schools? They have been in an arms race for the lowest acceptance for the past decade. Now you want them to allow in more students? Why should they?
Look, CC is full of people who fetishize the elites and think they offer the only way to have a nice upper middle class life. But they far overstate the differential between Harvard/other elites and the “average” state schools. You want to make a real difference? Make state schools more affordable to the masses, don’t waste your time asking H to add 100 more students.
"What is the compelling argument for expanded enrollment at the wealthy schools? "
I think there are a lot of worried students and parents out there who think that if only HYPSM had a few more slots then I (or my kid) could/would have a decent shot at getting in…
Stanford added 100 slots–that could potentially up their acceptance rate by .2%, unless more kids apply this year…
Well, for one, their need-blind admissions policies and, for another, their generous need-based financial aid.
Apple isn’t a tax-exempt 501(c)(3) like Harvard, so they’re hardly analogous.
All these elite schools have been gradually expanding their enrollment over many years. Next year, Yale is going to add 200+ slots after adding two more residential colleges.
I think this is a dangerous slippery slope. Are we going to tell churches how to spend their tithes? More food for the homeless, fewer mission trips, more sunday school, no more candles for Christmas Eve, and you can’t have more than one pastor or more than one custodian? (not getting into an argument about whether churches should be tax exempt-- but do we really want to micromanage ANY non-profit this way?)
The need-blind admissions and generous financial aid policies are wonderful, but they DON’T HAVE TO DO THAT! So saying “you’re doing a great thing! Now we’re going to tell you that you have to do it more” seems counter-productive.
@donnaleighg, I think it has to do with proportionality. Given their ENORMOUS assets and ravenous, unabated capital fundraising, is Harvard really all that generous?
Yes, it is. And if they got more generous to rich kids, I’d be unhappy about it.
The capital fundraising is for specific projects. Almost every dollar is earmarked. It would, in fact, be illegal for Harvard to spend it against the donors’ wishes.
Go complain about NYU getting charity status and then encouraging its undergrads to take on ridiculous debt. That’s a sin we ought to be worried about.
“Harvard can and should do a better job of publicizing the fact that it is effectively free to the bottom half of US households.”
Harvard does the best job of all the elites and near-elites at doing this. Harvard screams this at their out-in-your-community admin rep meetings.
I went up to the Harvard rep after our first such multi-school meeting and asked the rep if she was serious about the numbers and percentages of overall fees that were shown in her slide show. She took me by the forearm and asked me to please make sure I tell everyone I know that this is real.
I have.
“Harvard does the best job of all the elites and near-elites at doing this. Harvard screams this at their out-in-your-community admin rep meetings.”
Yeah, but which communities do they go to? And how do students/families know to come? There’s plenty of room for growth there. In my fantasy world, HYP-etc. collaborate to hold all-expenses-paid summer conferences where they fly out hundreds of counselors from underserved schools and show them what the fancy campus is like and hammer home the financial aid message. Throw the party for a different set of counselors at a different campus each year.
But they still don’t owe anyone anything, Lucie. Any more than, to use the church example, the church “owes” more food to the homeless.
So what if Harvard isn’t as generous as you’d like? They are free to run their institution how they like. If they decided tomorrow they wanted to eliminate any aid, that’s on them.
If H is a luxury good, why are taxpayers giving it tax-free welfare? Apple has clever tax attorneys, but we don’t deliberately give Apple tax-free status.
@Hanna, I was just having this discussion with my high school senior daughter and I did mention the targeting of students by zipcode and other criteria that may indeed be limiting families’ exposure to this information.
That HS guidance counselors may not have this information to disseminate to their students may be the first line of failure in access to this information. If there are counselors who have pre-determined that “my kids don’t go to those places,” and therefore those counselors do not apprise parents and students of the opportunities to sit in on one of these college-to-you meetings, then there is only hope by word of mouth and the stumbling upon a site such as this, where parents can talk to other parents, that this information is gleaned.
Two nights ago I found myself in the position of listening to a woman I have known my entire life, a close friend at one time, who relayed to me the educational options that she thought were the right fit for her child, but which were not put on the final list due to considerations of cost. When I told her about financial aid policies at Harvard, Princeton and MIT, it broke my heart to hear that she had not known.
After the latest stock market correction, this is going to be off the table.
And the information needs to get out early enough so that students and parents do not miss deadlines for all of the extra stuff that HYPSetc. need in their applications:
- SAT subject tests.
- Essays in application.
- CSS Profile (and chasing after the non-custodial parent).
- Recommendation from counselor.
- Recommendations from teachers.
Students, counselors, and teachers in schools where most college-bound students to go the local community college, or go to less selective four year schools with just a high school record and senior year SAT or ACT may easily not realize that the above may be needed at HYPSetc. And the teachers and counselors may not write the best recommendations due to lack of experience with such.
Personally, I think it’d be great if Harvard went free, but unless Harvard thinks so too I don’t think anyone should/could force them to. In “my plan”, Harvard wouldn’t even have to lose the revenue they are raking now. All they need to do is to set aside a few hundred spots for “development cases” with a price tag (with the condition that the students meet certain criteria so they can graduate). There would be a lot more applicants supposedly, and they could choose whatever they want from larger pools, athletes, URM, academic superstars, (upper) middle class kids caught in the doughnut holes, etc. etc. What to lose?
Wow, I just checked the state she lives in and it turns out that only certain campuses of the state university system there require a written essay, and they are campus-specific, supplemental. I have no idea what the local schools do, but, more than likely, no, no essay is required.
Yes, ucbalumnus, these would indeed be new waters for many families.