Another option (and Harvard is probably already doing this to some extent) is to increase the number of meaningful paid internship opportunities offered to students. Many kids on FA who need to cover their student contributions can’t afford to take an unpaid or low paying internship which might lead to a lucrative job after graduation. My kids’ college is taking money out of its own coffer to pay kids stipends if their summer internships don’t pay enough. I think it’s a nice way to level the playing field.
@Pizzagirl Forget about my “background”. Everyone of us come with our own biases, aware or not and admitting or not. I’d rather think that we are just analyzing the cause of a phenomenon and happen to have different opinions. Cheers
“what I say is NO ONE gets hurt and almost everyone benefits from Harvard going free, including and in particular to less informed kids in schools with poor counseling. Again, what’s to lose?”
I don’t see the point of giving the kids of I- bankers and hedge fund managers a luxury good for free. Of course, Harvard can do what they like. They are free to bring the price down to $0 for everybody, or insist everybody be full pay.
Sorry to pick on this statement. Could have chosen many others. This was just the latest.
As has been noted before, Harvard and other schools do not have complete discretion on the utilization of the endowment. Most gifts to college endowments are made for specific purposes stated in wills, trusts and other relevant documents that are drafted by the donors. These terms may not be ignored or violated by the recipients.
I can understand an exhortation to Harvard benefactors to donate more money to support graduate programs (it is fun to tell other individuals what to do with their money!). But to tell Harvard to do this would only have an effect at the margin, specifically to the portion of endowment funds that have been donated with no purpose attached
Thanks pizzagirl for the insight. There are a lot of people who think that they should be entitled to free services no matter how rich they are. There are a lot of non profits–the Catholic Church , blue cross, most hospitals, Yale university. If Harvard has to give more why shouldn’t the rest of the non profits?Personally I think Harvards aid policy is very generous
@gphi777 Look up “community benefit” requirements for hospitals specifically 501®. The IRS is spelling out requirements for hospitals and I expect they are going to get around to colleges soon.
Many states have more stringent standards for hospitals than the IRS. Illinois in particular is going after hospitals and it is probably a matter of time before they get to colleges they perceive to be abusing tax exempt status. As states look for revenue sources, this is a big area of opportunity for them.
I would like to clarify the last sentence of this paragraph: “it’s not all that important from elsewhere.” More specifically, ask your opinions about this:
If a kid from elsewhere attends one of such schools in NE, is it advantageous for him/her to stay in NE after graduated?
One of my wife’s close friends in Texas firmly believes that sending a kid to HYP (actually any brand name private college especially those in NE) is a very bad idea. In her mind, both Texas and Texas A&M are better choices. But she considers many of those very religious schools the best for the young. She mostly has a problem with the left leaning professors - in her mind, she has no doubt such professors and the learning environment in any such research university are “poisonous” to young men or women.
DS once went to see a doctor. This doctor’s POV is not that different than the friend of my wife. They are all very good people. They just disapprove anything about such schools, especially their faculty. A very high percentage of the members in that friend’s church seem to have the same point of view.
It depends on the circles you value and wish to travel in. I have no interest in being in the kind of circles your wife’s friend does, but I’m not her.
"I’d rather think that we are just analyzing the cause of a phenomenon and happen to have different opinions. "
Sure. So what do you think is the root cause that the fact that H is effectively free to those below $x income is a fact that isn’t well known, particularly in the demographic that could most benefit from it? Why do you think that the GCs in my kids’ affluent suburban district - easily top 10% in the state by Hanna’s lights - don’t really talk about it or publicize it? What do you think the root causes of that are?
Why should Harvard be free to those at the upper income levels? Why? Just because they can? What good does it do the school to draw even more apps from financially sound households? You think it will attract more academically optimal rich candidates, as if that were some big, troubling issue now? Or that there’s magic “trickle down,” the poorer kids will now suddenly be more aware? And only those who truly qualify academically?
You’re saying throw open the floodgates, without considering the full and layered impact.
As for grad support, yes, the U can have advancement target donor grants for this. It would be a philosophical and strategic decision, then a directive. Sure, they could. Advancement reps are always “guidng” big donors. Did you think they just leave this to chance?
@mcat2 I am surprised that your wife’s friend thinks UT and A&M are religious. While A&M has a large conservative contingent, I don’t think you’ll find the student body or faculty as particularly religious. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I do think a Texas kid who goes to one of these schools is better off staying in the NE if they are trying to maximize the return on their investment. The degree is more highly valued in the NE. Of course, the COL is higher there too so I guess you have to do your own math.
I’m from Louisiana. I went to school in the Northeast. Not Harvard, but a top 50 LAC. I came back to Louisiana about a year after college.
Having a degree from LSU would absoluty have been more helpful career-wise. Heck, a degree from one of the other publics (aka “directionals”) in Louisiana, which most on CC have never heard of, wound be more helpful. Actually, the most helpful elite here is probably Northwestern because we have a Northwestern State in Louisiana so there could be confusion there. 
Granted my school wasn’t Harvard. But it wouldn’t be much different. People have heard of Harvard and they might think “hm, guess she’s pretty smart” but it wouldn’t really impress them all that much. And there are definitely people who would assume I was snobby. As there are now.
None of this means I regret going to school where I did. It was a great experience for me. But my HS friends who went to state schools nearby also had great experiences.
True, 1or2. I always joke most people know the names of the 50 states, especially those schools with powerhouse sports. And regional can matter if it’s what a hiring manager knows best.
But let’s not conflate the number of northeastern kids at top NE schools with some prestige mania. These are schools in their local areas. Same as Carleton or our old friend, Truman State, can mean more to a Midwest kid.
The platform is basically
- Make Harvard free for all
- Let us see all admissions stats/records/apps because we think you are discriminating (against Asian applicants in particular)
- End legacy admissions.
Right?
Cooper Union was free until a year or two ago and frankly I doubt very few people knew that, outside of NYC maybe. There are other free colleges that low income students could get into but don’t usually know about - Berea, for one.
My kid’s college does too, and I’m aware of others with this policy. I think Yale is looking at its high student contribution for low income students and reducing, i read recently?
There is a fundamental difference, I’ve learned, in attitudes about state schools west of the eastern coastal states than there is on the coasts. These not-midatlantic/New England states generally opened their state schools to serve everyone in the state, rich and poor. They aim to be, and often are, really great universities. In the east, where so many private schools already existed, the state schools fill a niche that isn’t comparable to the mighty Michigan, OSU, UT, or Cal. I honestly think this accounts for some of the big difference in attitudes toward east coast privates west of NJ.
Right. When I was growing up in PA, for the high school valedictorian or local brainiac to go to Penn State was kind of an "oh … " disappointment, step down, that’s too bad. Here in Big 10 land, no one really thinks twice about a valedictorian choosing Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, etc. It’s just not as big of a differential as it is out east. It took me a while to get used to it, coming from the northeast.
Another thing I have learned on CC- The disdain for Rutgers by those from NJ never fails to surprise me. People in other states have heard of Rutgers. It has more name brand recognition than some of the top LACs. I think people unfamiliar with it mistakenly assume it is an LAC. Of course, I think a lot of people think you can only study liberal arts at an LAC.
Puh-lenty of PA hs big dawgs are happy with Penn State or similar.
I never got the criticisms of Rutgers, considering its strengths and now that the town is more cleaned up. Kids seem to complain too many of their hs peers are there.
I don’t have a problem with Harvard’s tax status or the fact that (some) taxpayer money goes its way each year. I personally think Harvard is a worthy public investment when you consider its stature in the world, its contributions to science and the arts. All of us as a society benefit indirectly (and for some, quite directly) from Harvard being here and not, say, in Beijing.
I believe the disdain is for New Jersey.
From an old “All in the Family” episode. Meathead and Gloria are looking for an apartment so that they can move out of Archie’s house.
Archie: Have you looked in New Jersey?
Meathead: Arch, I don’t want to live in New Jersey.
Archie: No one does, but somebody has to.
Lol. No, it is the people from NJ who I am referring to. I would have never expected such dislike of a state school by its residents. I don’t think the New Yorkers are big on any of the SUNYs either but Rutgers has “name” recognition in my neck of the woods that some NE privates (not referring to the Ivies of course) don’t.