<p>So, I had to take a math placement test for the University of Arizona in order to be able to take math classes there. Since I'm enrolled in a college algebra class already, I took the "prep for calculus" version.</p>
<p>Note: I have never learned Trig. Ever. A lot of the test had trig and I attempted to do the problems by a little "cheat sheet" that was a very vague description on how to solve the problem. Some pointers, really, and nothing more. I did the rest by logic, such as: "Hey, that sounds right, I'll multiply here."</p>
<p>By some miracle, I got an 82. That score allows me to take Calculus I as a freshman next year. With that score, if I can teach myself some basic Calculus in roughly six hours, I'm probably capable of taking Calculus with a lack of preparation for the course.</p>
<p>I know that engineering majors require calculus so the only reason that's stopping me from enrolling in Calc I right away is the fact that the University of Arizona has a reputation of a horrid Math department. And also the fact that I don't have too much knowledge of math for a strong foundation. The last thing I wanna do is fail Calculus.</p>
<p>Suggestions? Should I just enroll in Calc 1 and help buy me some time so I can change my undecided major to engineering, or take a transitional math class for the fall?</p>
<p>If you are going to attempt Calculus I, I would probably get a tutor if you are second guessing your abilities. </p>
<p>I have a lot of Math deficiencies like most students in this country. I am going into Calculus II and I struggle mostly but because I never had a good foundation in the first place </p>
<p>We were doing some integrals a few weeks ago that required long division, honestly, I was able to make all the way to Calculus II without ever learning long division. Sad but it makes me think that there is something fundamentally wrong with our educational system.</p>
<p>In my opinion, if you don’t have any previous Trigonometry background, it will be very hard for you to learn Trig this late in the game- I don’t remember anything from Trig, if you asked me what sin of π/6, I have no idea but Calculus I assumes that you know your Trig identities well</p>
<p>I remember some limits that were impossible to solve without recognizing Trig identities- so not knowing Trig will definitely work against you but I still don’t remember anything from Trig and honestly don’t have the patience to learn it this late in the game.</p>
<p>You’ll do fine in Calc 1, as long as you have a plan (and keep to it). I’m sure tutoring is available, and you’ll want to get into a study group with other 1’st year engineers. In fact, the best advise I can give any undergrad engineering students is learn to love the “study group”. It will make classes like Calc 2, fluids, etc, much easier to work though and understand.</p>
<p>@bschoolwiz</p>
<p>I’m guessing one issue with our educational system is…calculators. Without calculators, you would have been forced to learn long division. One fun game I like to play with both of my “honor” high school kids is quiz them with simple math problems (what’s 15% of $63?). It’s fun watching these brainiacs faces scrunched up as they try to race and solve a simple math problem in their head (yes, I’m easily amused).</p>
<p>I started back to school two years ago and had not taken a trig related class since 2000 (even then I don’t think I memorized identities), I was still able to make it through the calculus sequence, diffeq and linear algebra with all A’s. A quick google search provided me with a cheat sheet to memorize of trig identities (especially half/double angle formulas). Last summer I finally cracked open a precalc book (after calc3 and circuits mind you) and finally read the chapter covering all the lovely trig stuff. You just have to be willing to put the time in to review what you don’t know and you’ll be fine.</p>
<p>@ bschoolwiz, sin (pi/6 or 30 degrees) = 1/2 ;-)</p>
<p>@Gator88NE
The ability to chunk percentages quickly, especially 15% is very useful with figuring out what you want to pay on a restaurant bill. 63*.1 = 6.3, half of that is 3.15, so 9.45 would be the tip :-)</p>
<p>We used the trig identities a bit for indefinite anti-differentiation, either to prove new identities or to rearrange an integrand, and there are a few few other problems we did (like maximization and related rates stuff) where some simple right triangle geometry (pyth. theorem-level simple I think) is going to come into play, but this literally adds up to memorizing maybe 10-15 little relationships you should already know (which you can probably derive yourself on the spot if you are clever), and at least my teacher reviewed them a bit as needed, expecting that we would need a bit of a refresher. </p>
<p>More important imo are that you are solid in algebra and solid with fraction maths. </p>
<p>Where being comfortable with trig pays dividends imo is ENGR. My intro professor’s philosophy was to teach easy, test with problems that are WAY more complicated than what he showed us, and then curve like hell. One test, half the questions required trig to solve, after it never came up once in the class. </p>
<p>But for calc, you’ll likely just need to know some identities and be able to see where to apply them.</p>
<p>Well yes of course trig functions are used extensively inside and outside of the math sequence; yes trig substitution was one of the calc II integration techniques and yes my diffeq teacher showed us how to derive all trig identities with euler’s formulas/complex analysis (so did my circuits professor to a lesser extent so we’d be comfortable going back and forth with notation). Yes statics and the physics sequence all use trig every class (especially waves!), but the OP was asking about his calc I course. So I guess I should just say, that yes, trig is fundamentally important to engineering. But not having taken a formal precalc course (or having forgotten it) isn’t a cardinal sin for those willing to learn it on their own time (or figure out on the spot as has happened to me a couple times). Every time I needed to do something I wasn’t familiar with (adding trig functions for example), I spent time reviewing it until I felt comfortable enough to use it. That’s what I was trying to get at.</p>
<p>edit: I mispoke in my earlier post, I took circuits last fall with diffeq (co-req), after I had reviewed the pre-calc book.</p>
You never knew how to do long division? I don’t think this shows there’s something “wrong” with our education system. How far in math did you get in high school? How could you have not not used a calculator? Do you know how to divide equations? Long division is one way to do it? I can understand if you only went to Algebra II in high school, but if you went further than that then it’s all on you. A calculus teacher isn’t going to make sure you know how to divide. </p>
<p>Isn’t trigonometry sort of necessary. I know I haven’t taken a calculus course in college, but I’ve taken BC and if you didn’t know any trig you were considered behind. It’s no the hard to pick up a book. Learn the identities and do the problem. </p>
<p>Plus a simple paper plate unit circle will solve your problem, bschoolwiz. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Like I said, I have a lot of Math deficiencies that were never addressed, somehow I was able to get through Trigonometry, Pre-Calculus, Calculus I and now I am going into Calculus II with a mix of fear and excitement.</p>
<p>I never learned long division and this topic came up again when we were talking about integrals where the degree of the polynomial on the numerator is equal or higher than the degree of the polynomial on the denominator.</p>
<p>Luckily, there were no such questions on any tests or the Final but I think most people had no idea how to do long division.</p>
<p>It is very frustrating to be in my position because I am not an idiot but every Math class I have taken has been very challenging because I am always lacking the foundation needed from the previous course lol</p>
<p>I can understand where you’re coming from though. This may seem very trivial but I’ve always had the hardest time adding numbers such as 8+5 or 7+8. I only had trouble adding a few numbers together and they always gave me trouble. They still do to this day. Yes, I know what they add up to but not nearly as fast as 8+6 or 7+5.</p>
<p>bschoolwiz:
I never learned how to properly factor until this year, and most people at my school learned that in Freshman year or 8th grade. I was always told to use the calculator. Now I know how to do it by hand. My middle school teachers were terrible and I learned nothing in those two years. The only reason I am where I am today in Math is because my Algebra 3-4 (junior year) teacher was phenomenal.</p>
<p>For the rest of you, my algebra is solid and I’m constantly tutoring my peers. I can find x like a pirate. But don’t worry, I know more than x. I’m supposed to be in the honor track at my school, but I decided against it so I could take math and get college credit (probably saved a good grand or so choosing that option). If I did continue in advanced Math, I would have just finished Pre-Calc and this would not have been a problem. Sigh.</p>
<p>I think I’ll trust you guys and enroll in Calc 1 in the fall. I will have a lot of free time this summer and I’ll be able to teach myself some Trig then.</p>
<p>Thank you so much! I appreciate your guys’ advice.</p>
<p>I haven’t taken calculus yet, but I am this Fall. My ACT scores allow me to take Calculus 1 (which requires a math score of 27 or higher) but I also want to take trig. This is my schedule:</p>
<p>Plane Trigonometry
Calculus with Analytic Geometry 1
Principles in Chemistry 1
Principles in Chemistry 1 LAB</p>
<p>According to my Intro Physics professor who got both his bachelor and masters degree in physics, you wont use a lot of trigonometry until differential equations. Then again, he took those classes in the 60’s so who knows if it’s different now or not. Regardless, I have a strong algebra background and only a very mild trig background (stuff I taught myself in just a few weeks) so I’m taking trig for the extra foundation.</p>