A question from a student to parents that aren't her own

Parents Forum
1

<p>Hello, elders! I have sort of a quandary that I am hesitant to discuss with my own parents (largely because they would be angry with me for undermining their capabilities, but also because it is hard for me to talk to them in general) and the thought struck me that hm! Perhaps it would be a good idea, given the inability to evaluate matters with my own parents, to try and work out them with mostly-anonymous parents of other students my age! Are you willing to help me?</p>

<p>...good! Glad to see that you're still reading.</p>

<p>Okay, so here is the scoop: I am a rising senior. Woo! I am also poor. [Retract "woo."] Not just poor; "dirt poor" is a better term. (We are currently borrwing WiFi from the neighbours and my dad is off at the local food pantry, if that gives you any indication.) But I want to go to college more than anything, being an independent sort of soul who values intelligence and learning above all else. To live at a university allows me to finally be free from the chokehold of living at home and live life by my own terms. Moreover, my town is not even 1,500 people, and with no opportunities for jobs, volunteering, things to do, or new friends, the atmosphere here is positively stifling. You might be able to guess just how furiously I am grasping at the concept of finally being able to leave within a year's time.</p>

<p>Here comes the problem. When I go to university, I will have to foot the bills all on my own, because my parents are unemployed/underemployed and spent the entirety of my college savings account -- savings bonds, cash, and birthday money alike -- sometime around 2003. We have been faced with many financial crises such as being evicted and having to move, my mother having cancer and no health insurance, my parents going to college late in life, &c. With my inability to pay for school lunches, college application fees, and most importantly a new flute for music school auditioning, the realization is ever-dawning on me with increasing intensity that I am going to be more broke than your typical college student. My parents will not be able to afford to send me a stipend every few months, and because of this, I will likely have to work two jobs on top of classes, clubs, intramural sports, and trying to be somewhat social and generally the person I failed to become in high school.</p>

<p>Would it be a good idea to take a year off after graduation to work my butt off and maybe earn a few thousand dollars, and that new flute, to take with me the next fall?</p>

<p>Given the fact that my mental sanity has gone out the window, the idea of facing another year in this little farm town is enough to suffocate the life right out of me, I am not kidding you. Every town around here is just the same. And I am not, NOT willing to go to a community college, because that is not the college experience that I have always dreamed of, and as an American woman, I try to reach my dreams and never, ever give up. But without money, I will be more than broke; I will probably end up using a credit card and being a few thousand dollars in debt by the end of freshman year, not even counting college bills which will be yet to come.</p>

<p>If I were your daughter, what sort of advice would you give me in this situation? Should I gut it out and stay here for another heart-wrenching year in order to maybe earn enough money to survive at least for my first year of college? Should I go off to college and work two jobs, sleep about an hour a night, and generally stretch myself too thin? Should I go off to college and (ew) depend on the government/college aid department to keep me alive?</p>

<p>Any help is muchly appreciated.</p>

2

<p>You have got to do the math...figure out your living expenses, how much you can reasonably expect to make and save between now and next year, and how much you can make and save if you take a gap year.</p>

<p>My niece lived with her dad and wicked stepmother and after her 18th birthday (in Nov. of her senior year), wicked stepmother kicked her out of the house. Her older brother asked his male roommate to leave and she moved in with him. Her mom, grandmother and aunt (me) paid her half of the rent for the rest of the school year. She quit all her ECs and got a waitress job; graduated in the top 10% of her class. She got financial aid for college totally on her own and graduated in 4 years, even spending a semester in Africa. Hope this inspires you because it can be done!</p>

3

<p>I would tell my daughter to spend her senior year keeping her grades up and applying every last need-based and merit-based scholarship or grant she could find. Your EFC on FAFSA, assuming you have virtually no income, should yield a low amount, if not a zero. Find schools that meet 100% of the demonstrated need of a student. There are many of them out there. Pay attention to how those schools typically meet that need, percentage of grants vs. loans, etc... Your situation (affording college) may not be as dire as you think. I'm sure others on here will have better advice...</p>

4

<p>How are your Stats? (GPA/SAT or ACT). Research colleges and try and find some where you are in the top few % points stats wise. That way you are more likely to qualify for some merit aid. You will likely qualify for need based financial aid but, except at schools that promise to meet full need, this often will not cover the entire cost. Those that do promise to meet full need are often the more prestigious schools that are harder to get into. If you have the Stats to qualify then apply to those. For schools that do not promise to meet full need a combination of merit money and need based aid can sometimes meet the cost of the school. For instance my daughter is at a large State U - need based grant aid alone would cover about 1/2 the cost of the school but she has high Stats that put her in the top 2-3% so has merit money that covers most of the rest leaving her with Work Study & just a small amount of loans.</p>

<p>Need based aid is based on your EFC (Estimated Family Contribution) derived from your parent's income and assets and your income and assets. The school has a figure called the COA (Cost Of Attendance) which is an averaged student cost generally made up of tuition and fees/room and board/books/miscellaneous/travel expenses. The Difference between the COA and the EFC is the 'need' on which your need based aid is calculated. That aid may consist of a combination of grants (federal and/or state and/or institutional), loans and work study. But many schools cannot meet full need so qualifying for merit money can really help. If you qualify for need based aid there is nothing 'ew' about accepting it.</p>

5

<p>If you were my daughter I'd say you have wonderful dreams. Those dreams can become a reality. We cannot however, give them to you. You wouldn't want us to help financially anyway, since a part of your dream is being an "independent soul", and we have been choking you. If you want to achieve your dreams YOU must achieve your dreams
I'd urge you to make a couple financial decisions quickly. First, to look hard at the flute issue. Is a new one necessary for an audition? Is there no cheaper alternative that could do just as well?
Second, get realistic college choices in mind, and start narrowing down. Once you have them narrowed to 6 or 8, then prepare all paperwork you can so that as soon as it is time to send applications you can be one of the first. Then look at your responses and particularly financial aid packages. AFTER you can evaluate that, then decide if you need to work a yr to be able to make your dream of being a self-supporting, independent adult happen. If you are so dirt poor, you may qualify for more need scholarships, fed grants., etc that don't have to be paid back. That could help reduce your debt upon graduation.
Lastly, remember college is an investment. How much you are willing to spend should be largely based on how much you expect to earn. Remember debt after college reduces your quality of life for years until it's paid off, and isn't the point of college to improve one's quality of life? It may be that your dream college is less affordable than a safety- but remember- one of the things you want to learn is to handle your money better than your parents.</p>

6

<p>You write very well. Can you back it up with some research?</p>

<p>If, as it sounds, your EFC is 0, you will be eligible for full rides at some schools. You'll need to look around at what schools offer, and pinpoint your application strategy. Start at your HS guidance office, as small as it may be. Where have other students from your area gone? Can the office supply you with application fee waivers? What schools are within a reasonable reach, based on your goals and scores? </p>

<p>You should also look into tuition-free schools. These are few and far between, but would certainly give you a way out of your situation. Good luck!</p>

7

<p>My advice:</p>

<p>Don't compromise on the big issues: Getting out of a small town and going to a 4 year school are important to you, and it is achievable.</p>

<p>Find a school that wants you and will make it affordable for you. They are out there.</p>

<p>Avoid credit card debt. It can ruin your dreams.</p>

<p>Keep the purple hair.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

8

<p>Hi Skull:
I am old now but I was very much in a situation similar but yet different than yours when I was your age. Small dying town, no financial backing from anywhere, it was tough. One differece for me was that I did not keep my grades up and hence I had to work and go to community college in order to get into a good university. However,once that was done I was on my way!!
I would suggest you stay in state or go to a school that has arrangements with your state to charge slightly above in state tuition to your state residents. You will undoubtedly qualify for need based assistance and if your grades are good you may also get academic assistance. You can also take out loans. Yes, you will have debt upon graduation but they make the payments low and I had mine paid off in 10 years without it hurting too much. You are already used to living a frugal life style so 1 job--maybe waitressing where you get good tips should be able to get you through. In the summer you could get a job at a resort that gives you residence for free and and save alot of $$ that way.
Just remember that where there is a will there is a way--start talking to the financial people at your schools now. Getting you financial aid apps in early is necessary in your case. Good Luck to you!</p>

9

<p>Just a couple of thoughts.</p>

<p>You write really well, and maturely. You don't need a year off. You need to go to college. You belong at college.</p>

<p>Ditto above advice on finding aid. To get better aid focus a bit on raising your SAT scores. I looked at your chances thread, and I don't think those scores reflect the ability I see in your writing, your course choices and your ambition. Get a review book (or borrow one from the library) and practice. This might be the most valuable thing you could do based on a potential payoff/ hour of effort calculation.</p>

<p>As for what to do about money: I suspect you already have some great skills at squeezing a dollar. You can live surprisingly cheaply at college, especially if you cook for yourself, or if one of your jobs is at a restaurant. As for summer jobs, a lot of money can be made at traditionally male jobs like construction, firefighting, etc. I nearly put myself through college with a summer job surveying (lots of overtime, per diem for travel). You just have to be willing to put up with being the "token" female.</p>

10

<p>MY Dds friend has a mom in jail and dad who has no money, very low income. She got a job early in HS, works 2-3 jobs in summer. She has paid for her own laptop, her own braces, her own car, etc. She has $20k saved and is off to college far away from home, some aid, but finaid is impacted by her earnings :( She is taking a job in her new town for another store in the same company she already works for here.</p>

<p>Pick a college where you can get aid & maybe merit money. Can you take APS and test out of some requirements?</p>

<p>If you go to a lower tuition state school (what state are you in so we can give more cogent advice) your living expenses will be the toughest part- work to save money, and yes, you can make it happen. it will never be easy, but it does not sound like staying home woul be easy for your psyche</p>

11

<p>Just noticed the line, "I will likely have to work two jobs on top of classes, clubs, intramural sports, and trying to be somewhat social and generally the person I failed to become in high school." You may have to sacrifice the clubs and intramural sports in college. Doesn't mean you can't have a social life. When you are out there working, you will meet other ambitious students like yourself...your social life may consist of going out with your fellow student workers after the restaurant closes at 10, but that can be just as fun as field hockey or whatever.</p>

12

<p>I notice from some of your other postings that you are from NYS. These are the things that I think you need to do:</p>

<p>Start in your own back yard; </p>

<p>If you want to go away to school, your financial "safety" will be SUNY. Even if you have to go the CC route, there are SUNY schools where you can live on campus.
If you are a low income student with a "0" EFC , you will be eligible for full PELL (~ 4800) full TAP (~5000) an ACG grant, and stattord/perkins loans. This alone will pay the full cost for you to attend SUNY. Remember you will not be eligible for TAP if you attend school outside of NYS.
1. Research the EOP programs at SUNY to see where you fall as far as grades (you will get a wink on the GPA part) Check with the individual schools as they mar have a CR cut-off score.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.suny.edu/student/downloads/pdf/2009_EOP_profile.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.suny.edu/student/downloads/pdf/2009_EOP_profile.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<ol>
<li>fill out a SUNY application (as a low income student you will be able to apply to 4 schools on the SUNY fee waiver).<br></li>
</ol>

<p><a href="http://www.suny.edu/student/downloads/Pdf/2009_fee_waiver.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.suny.edu/student/downloads/Pdf/2009_fee_waiver.pdf&lt;/a>
You want to apply as early in the cycle as possible since EOP monies are given out on a first come, first served basis. EOP also requires supplemental information (essays, recommendations, etc).</p>

<p>IF there are other SUNY schools that you are interested in ask your GC about a NACAC fee waiver (most SUNY schools will accept them).</p>

<ol>
<li> Research HEOP schools in NYS (there are some really good ones; NYU, Columbia, Barnard, Cornell, Fordham, Syracuse, Hamilton, Skidmore) which are all HEOP schools and if admitted they will make it really affordable for you to attend.</li>
</ol>

<p><a href="http://www.highered.nysed.gov/kiap/pdf/HEOPWebBrochure2008.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.highered.nysed.gov/kiap/pdf/HEOPWebBrochure2008.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Check Questbridge</p>

<p>Find out if you can or have been nominated for the POSSE Foundation Scholarship</p>

<p>This should give you a good jumping off point to compile a list of reach, match and safety schools that will be affordable for you to attend.</p>

<p>All the best.</p>

13

<p>Definitely start in your back yard - are you on the Federal Free lunch program? If so then you can qualify for fee waivers for SAT's and applications. Use them!</p>

<p>Is your Guidance counselor knowledgable?<br>
Once you are accepted - don't hesitate to talk to financial aid. </p>

<p>The only thing that bothers me in your post is this:

[quote]
And I am not, NOT willing to go to a community college, because that is not the college experience that I have always dreamed of, and as an American woman, I try to reach my dreams and never, ever give up.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Many American women achieved their dreams through community colleges. Do not discount this. Is there a community college near your home to which you can commute? You can probably go for free and finish your first year or two. If you are taking AP courses and pass the exams - the CC will most likely take the credit.</p>

<p>If there is a CC - please check into it. CC's often have agreements with colleges that guarantee to accept their credits.</p>

<p>5 years after you get your degree neither you nor anyone else will care that you went to a community college.</p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

14

<p>I will write a cohesive response at a later time today when I am not crunched for hours, but let me say this: I appreciate all of the help you're giving me and had never imagined that my post would elicit such a response!</p>

<p>Just to clear things up, there is nothing wrong with CC, lots of people can achieve their dreams or have a good start in education, but I have tried it through early admissions in my high school and while the classes are nice, the environment in general is not for me. It's too similar to my high school: small, and full of people I know. It's great for some, but I want a four-year scene. You know?</p>

<p>Okay. Must run. Will respond. Thanks again!</p>

15

<p>sybbie, you are a gem. An absolute gem. As always , I am so impressed. If we had that little emoticon where the subject is bowing, I'd use it here. </p>

<p>I'll let the OP come back with some more stats data before I even try to make merit and "merit within need" (or "preferential packaging") suggestions.</p>

16

<p>I started out in your position and (after many missteps) it worked out.</p>

<p>Comm College is not for you. The Fin Aid system is set up to help you with 4-year schools; take advantage of it. CC is better than quitting, though.</p>

<p>One nice thing about college is that many people are "poor," at least in the college sense. This was important to me at the time, perhaps less so for you.</p>

<p>Work the financial aid, and I'll bet you can get by with only one job and have plenty of time for extra (fun) stuff.</p>

<p>You write well.</p>

17

<p>Here are her stats from another thread:
[quote]
Chances?
I'm really rather worried about my chances of getting into any good college, to be honest with you, because while my grades are high now, I was an absolute slacker during my freshman year. I have turned things around immensely since then, and BU seems to be perfect for me, but it is a fairly good school so I'm not sure if they will be fond of my application specs or not.</p>

<p>Academia
* GPA: 3.35, and my school doesn't weight. :/
* SAT: 660 CR, 550 M, 730 W -- I can do far better, but I was very ill that day, so I am retaking the test this fall.
* Great recs so far; school has not yet begun for the year, so I only have one for certain that I know of, but if those that teachers gave me for different applications last year are of any indication, I should be absolutely set there.
* 90+ on 7/9 Regents exams, including two 98s, a 99, and a 100.
* My school does not offer AP courses, but they do offer college credit courses through Syracuse University, SUNY Albany, and the local community colleges. I have scored (without a curve) 90 or better as an average in every course. Currently, I have four AP equivalent courses under my belt, am taking another five this year, and my cumulative would-be college GPA thus far is 3.75.
* Dedicated to band. And although our band program is not huge, by "dedicated," I mean that I help out with every fundraiser, practice, am a section leader, will be Band Co-President this year, and so on.
* Four honours courses: chemistry, and four years of being in an English class above my grade level (that is, they aren't labeled as "honours", but when I was in 9th grade they put me into 10th grade English, 10th they put me into 11th, 11th grade they put me into college English and this year should be a 200-level English).
* Six years of language! I have taken Spanish every year, and although it doesn't fit into my schedule for senior year, I am taking it as an independent study sort of option this year in addition to French I my sophomore year and French II this year. That has to count for something, right?
* I will have AWESOME essays. They're already written and, if I may toot my own flute, pretty spifftacular.
* Uh, my guidance counselor doesn't like me much because I'm not in Key Club, so she will -not- give me a good letter. Just to put that out there.
* My GPA went from a 78 at the end of my freshman year to an 89 by the end of this year's summer semester. I hope that makes me look decent.</p>

<p>ECs
Art Club, 2006-2007
Concert Band, 2005-2009</p>

<br>


<br>

<p>My volunteer experience is somewhat bald; it mostly has to do with band fundraising and helping my best friend with her church festivals.</p>

<p>Eeep? Thanks a ton, guys. If there is anything else you need to know (as if I'm not long-winded enough), please ask.

[/quote]
</p>

18

<p>Check Questbridge. Also consider Berea college. If you can raise your Math score, you should have a shot at a number of colleges. If your EFC is zero, and you qualify for Pell Grant, apply to some reach schools, such as Amherst. I also agree with looking at your own backyard as well.</p>

19

<p>Could I honestly get into Amherst with a bit of a higher math score? Oh, and I forgot to mention in either my CHANCES!? posts and this one -- I already have twenty-two college credits, and will have upwards of thirty by the end of this year, but I don't know how many are transferable. SUNY Albany and Syracuse will definitely accept them, as those are where they come from, but the others? Nyeh, probably not.</p>

<p>Um, if anybody is interested, my [constantly revised] list is thus:
Amherst College
(Berea, maybe?)
Boston University
CUNY The City College
Hampshire College
Oberlin College
Penn State University Park
Simmons College
Skidmore College!
SUNY Albany (I guess. My parents both went here. It could be a safety, even though I'm not quite enchanted.)
SUNY Binghamton
SUNY Cortland
SUNY Geneseo
Syracuse University
Virginia Commonwealth University
York College of Pennsylvania</p>

20

<p>Skullduggery-</p>

<p>How are your grades in said college-level classes?</p>

<p>Do NOT assume that you will not be able to find an institution that will provide you with sufficient need-based aid that you can experience college life. So, work on and retake the SAT. Also consider taking the ACT. Can't hurt and may help!</p>

<p>Now: make darn certain that you are applying to schools with abundant need-based aid for which your stats place you into the upper reaches. (I am sorry that I am not sufficiently familiar with the NE to help in that regard.) If you qualify for waivers of app fees, also consider adding some pie-in-the-sky outliers to your list. (This is very out of character for me.) Your story, your eloquence, and your drive may pave your way to somewhere unexpected.</p>

<p>I suggest that you not be terrified by all debt, but that you make certain that the loans you need to take do not exceed, say, $20,000 in total (many will think that this is too low. YMMV), depending on your course of study. The rub here is that your course of study may change several times.</p>

<p>Your writing is excellent. Your intelligence shines through. There is a way. You should be able to write some excellent essays.</p>

<p>What is your guidance dept like? Will the people there be helpful?</p>

<p>Please keep us posted.</p>

<p>~mafool</p>