A question on Oxford and Johns Hopkins that is giving me a headache.

<p>So, here is where I stand. Thus coming fall, I will be attending Johns Hopkins with intentions of going pre-med and doing the whole schabang. However, recently, my interest has been peaked in The University of Oxford's Biomedical Science Course (whose syllabus is miraculously similar to advanced premed lacking only the basic orgo, physics, gen bio, an gen Chen courses). Now, I plan on applying to Oxford this year, go through my freshman year at Hopkins (hopefully taking the basic courses not included at Oxford) and hopefully enterit as a freshman again at Oxford in Fall 2013. Now, am I roof myself a disservice by leaving American University to follow a fancy across the pond when I wish to come back to the US for medical school (probably Hopkins if possible)? In other words, in doing this, will I shortchange my chances to be accepted to a prestigious American medical school? Should I even attempt this? Will it be beneficial? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. </p>

<p>On a side note, it's one thing to study abroad at Oxford for one semester or a year, it's another to have an Oxford degree for undergrad. Just thought I'd say that before someone suggested just studying abroad. And I am American btw. Thanks!!!</p>

<p>Are you offerred considerable Scholarship at either?
As far as being pre-med, any UG will do, I do not know about consequences of studying abroad though. Maybe others will have more info about this.</p>

<p>No scholarship a either, but finance is not a true issue, though my parents are griping a bit at the prospect of paying for airfare and what not to get to Oxford If I actually get in. I am more concerned with the logistics of medical school admissions and academic benefits of both institutions. Just to clarify I have not been accepted to Oxford but plan on applying. I just don’t want to apply, take the BMAT and pay fees if I will end up just staying at Hopkins.</p>

<p>I have no idea if a degree from Oxford would help or harm you in the med school admissions process, but I have some thoughts and questions.</p>

<p>“The University of Oxford’s Biomedical Science Course (whose syllabus is miraculously similar to advanced premed lacking only the basic orgo, physics, gen bio, an gen Chen courses)”</p>

<p>As far as I have ever known, premed courses include a year (2 semesters, labs included) of each of the following: biology, general chemistry, organic chemistry, and physics, along with a course or two in English and math (usually calc or stats). If the Oxford course of study is missing orgo, physics, gen bio, and gen chem…how is it miraculously similar? </p>

<p>I can see the reason for taking the basic premed science courses at JHU if they’re not available at Oxford and you’re really considering Oxford. However, taking all premed prereqs (which is what you would be doing by taking bio, orgo, gen chem, and physics) in one year–your freshman year no less–would be both extraordinarily difficult and not recommended by most people on this board (and probably by most knowledgeable people in general). College isn’t like high school, and it’s tough to maintain the top grades necessary to win admission to med school. It’s a hell of a gamble to put all of the most important classes into a chock-full schedule freshman year, and you won’t be able to rectify any less-than-stellar grades because a) you won’t have time and b) AMCAS doesn’t allow grade replacement. </p>

<p>And finally, why a prestigious medical school? “Why not? I want the best I can get!” is not a reasonable answer because, given the small number of allopathic medical schools and the extreme competition to win a seat in any of them, nearly all allpathic medical schools in the US are quite competitive, and are great schools capable of training incredible physicians.</p>

<p>No easy answer to this…but probably. </p>

<p>I suspect you may have some difficulties because every US med school requires that all science pre-reqs must be taken at an accredited US or Canadian college or university. Many schools also require that applicants complete at least 2 years of their education at a US or Canadian college or university.</p>

<p>But whether you can do your pre-reqs at JHU over 2 years then go to Oxford to complete your baccalaureate and still be considered for US med schools----that’s something you will need to contact the admissions office at the specific schools you’re interested in and ask.</p>

<p>One of the other issues, you need to consider is that you may not have adequate advising at Oxford w/r/t US med school admissions. The looming issue is the new 2015 MCAT which you need to take for 2016 med school admission. No one is quite sure right now how the new MCAT with its new requirements and content will be implemented. Nor how much will med schools be changing their admission requirements to better reflect the new MCAT content. AMCAS will be updating and sending information about these changes to US colleges, but I doubt it will be sending the same info to foreign colleges.</p>

<p>Oxford has a lower tuition than Johns Hopkins making it cheaper even if you include airfare.</p>

<p>However, liking Oxford is totally different from getting in. It is as difficult as getting into HYPS. They have very few seats available for internationals with competition worldwide for those seats.</p>

<p>You seems to be on both sides financially. On one hand you say that finances are not the problem, then in next sentence you contradict it. So, your parents are considering paying for Med. School also? If so, then choose any school you wish (after you figure out the consequences of being in UG abroad).
You can get into any (prestigious included) Med. School from any UG (including state publics). Also, there is no reason whatsoever to strive getting to very top Med. Schools either, unless you personally wish to do so. It will not make a diff. in your future as any American Med. School is very good. It is very likely that docs from Harvard Med. School are working in the same office with docs from state public and they are not always better docs either, while recieving the same compensation. You yourself will make yourself a better doctor, your Medical school will not do it for you.</p>

<p>I know of someone who turned down Yale to go to Oxford for undergrad. They were accepted into the four year program where you come out with an MSc. They are a British national but a permanent resident in the US. The rules may have changed since they applied a few years ago but even with a “good” degree in biomedical science this student was encouraged by the Dean of Admissions of a top 10 to do a one year grad degree in the US before applying. Some sort of joint program where all of your science coursework is done in the US may work but I would take WOWM’s advice and check with a few admissions offices before you sign on the dotted line.</p>

<p>This student decided to ignore the advice, applied to twenty schools and got one interview because of connections. They did get into that one school but it was dicey until the very last minute. A big issue is that they grade differently and when getting recommendations your tutors will have to be prepped as to what is expected in letters going to US schools. They are not as effusive in their praise as Americans. There is no pre-med advising at Oxford that will address your needs.</p>

<p>MiamiDAP, I think you refer to this sentence from OP: “finance is not a true issue, though my parents are griping a bit at the prospect of paying for airfare.” If OP is like one of DS’s friend, who could afford a vacation trip across the pond any time without any reason (and flying first class), the finance is truely not an issue. (Of course, you would rarely find a student from such a “non-working class” in an orgo lab. LOL. Maybe his/her spouse may be, like in the case of Joe Biden’s D.)</p>

<p>My gut feeling is: Why bother to go far away to another country for college if your goal is to practice medicine someday here in this country? Unless you are truely interested in academic/research medicine (and applying mostly to these med schools), to apply to some “typical” med schools (esp., your in-state or in-region ones), a demonstration of some tie with your local community could be helpful. (e.g., Did you volunteer at a local charity organization? Did you go to a local church – if you are religious of course, for many years and have been involved in their community-related activities?) These “soft factors” could be important, and it may be harder for you to develop the ties to any local community if you are across the pond for 4 years.</p>

<p>BTW, some may argue that, if you happen to be so much more interested in Biomedical Science, PhD in that field could be a better fit. (if you know the way a typical med school makes you learn the science and clinical training as a future practicing doctor. I think it is very different from a PhD program.)</p>

<p>I don’t want kristen’s main point to get lost in the more philosophical discussions:</p>

<p>How is this program AT ALL like a us pre-med curriculum if it lacks gen bio, gen chem, physics, and orgo? That’s 8/11 pre-med courses missing!!!</p>

<p>Also, you shouldn’t transfer because Oxford seems cool. You should transfer because you dislike JHU so much that it is affecting your academics or mental health. Transferring is a huge amount of effort and will require an explanation and “well after deciding to go to Hopkins I found out about Oxford and it just sounded so awesome” is a terrible explanation. Will you get into medical school and then decide that finance sounds awesome and leave?</p>

<p>I once learned from a coworker (who received his UG graduation in UK) that they specialize in their major relatively more quickly, unlike the UG education in US where the students are still required to take a bulk of the courses in core education (assuming that the API/IP credits can not be used as at some top college in US, since OP referred to top colleges in US and UK.)</p>

<p>Along this line, I would guess what OP said was that they started from some intermediate level of science classes, assuming that their students have taken the introductory science classes before college. (This could be the case for many top students in some other countries, where the science is more emphasized in secondary education, unlike in US - especially in public education.)</p>

<p>This is contrary to the way most premed classes run in US, where it is often the cases that many premeds more likely get lower grades in these introductory science classes. (Thus, it is rumored that some med schools really want to see how you perform in the introductory classes while “working” hard on your ECs on the side. Not all upper-division classes are created equal in terms of grading, so it is hard for the med schools to compare the acdemic merit among applicants, if the students take very different set of classes. Maybe I should call this kind of academic merit as “gunning skill merit”, LOL.)</p>

<p>You’d be better off having a degree from an American institution and just studying abroad for a year or so. Medical schools and AMCAS do not know how to interpret foreign grades, and from what I understand the grading system in England is much harder. When I intended to study abroad there, I was told that a C in England was equivalent to an A at my university, though I’m not sure if that holds true for all UK schools. Plus, unless you intend to take a gap year back in the US, you would be applying to medical schools while abroad. Most schools do not offer a Skype or a phone interview. </p>

<p>OP, if you want to go to medical school in the US, stay here for your undergraduate degree.</p>

<p>Transfering is something we all keep in mind when we become enrolled to a university. However, when you get down the road, it just becomes impossible. I think it’s harder if you end up thinking your current uni is good.
Imagine yourself moving from one house to another and then having to inform every single person about your new location…</p>

<p>If you want to go to Oxford so badly, there are always study abroad programs. </p>

<p>JHU is sure to have one.</p>

<p>If you’re serious about pursuing medicine, I see no reason to try and transfer to Oxford.</p>

<p>Yes, just go to Oxford, then come back here and fill the gaps at any college and apply to Med. School. You can apply even in your 40s, there is no age limitaion, D’s class has one student who entered Med. School at 46. You can do whatever you wish as there seems to be no financial limitations in your case, you may even end up not choosing going to Med. School altogether as many original pre-meds do.</p>