<p>There is a wonderful non-profit organization in Newark called A Call to College [url=<a href=“http://www.acalltocollege.org/]Home[/url”>http://www.acalltocollege.org/]Home[/url</a>]. It is my understanding that they have been working with Tiffany, but that she is adamant about getting her 2 year nursing degree.</p>
<p>Yesterday, the Denison University Young Democrats launched an effort to help pass the school levy in Newark. This is how the Young Dem student leader described the situation:
<p>There are multiple valid points being made on this post, including community college being a valid option for students. </p>
<p>From my perspective, the “loss” for this young woman is due to the mind-set that can develop, over time, when an individual is immersed in a setting of insufficient adult support and constant lack. This mind-set can be difficult to overcome. I have witnessed this in extended family members who stay in a rural, economically poor region. The lense through which they view the world is small and limited, and they are unable to “move” beyond day to day economics. Their immediate circumstances are limited and this ultimately ends up shaping a distorted long-term view of what is possible. I also see this in some of the families I work with in a rural, low-income area.</p>
<p>My H and I are both aware of the lowered expectations on both sides of our families. We have both been the recipients of those lowered expectations, although we have for the most part broken out of that mind-set. It is why we will help our children foster their talents and gifts- as humans we are endowed with these gifts to be used, both for our own sense of joy and the well-being of others.</p>
<p>It’s not that attending a community college is a “lesser” option. The “tragedy” is that many gifted students, due to circumstances, have limited options without an awareness of how those limitations continue to shape them.</p>
<p>What the poor aren’t aware of is that LOANS are available, at favorable rates, in amounts that make attendance possible, and repayable relatively easily once the college degree is in hand. If made aware of the loans they are reluctant to accept the deal because things in “poor man’s world” rarely work out as planned; and the question then arises of how that mountain of debt gets repaid if graduation and subsequent higher-earning employment don’t pan out. </p>
<p>Generally, the poor live under capitalism while the wealthy experience a kind of socialism. It is this that accounts for much of the difference in worldview. Risk-taking is easier when there’s a safety net, or three or five.</p>
<p>“It’s not that attending a community college is a “lesser” option. The “tragedy” is that many gifted students, due to circumstances, have limited options without an awareness of how those limitations continue to shape them.”</p>
<p>I don’t know where you live, but where I do, getting into the Community College nursing program is more selective than Harvard, and legacy, wealth, athletics, or oboe-playing won’t help. The rejects often end up at the 4-year nursing programs. (The CC program is actually three years - there is a year’s worth or pre-reqs, 9 courses, requiring a minimum of 8 As and 1 A-minus for admission, even if you took the pre-reqs at Yale.)</p>
<p>My wife, who graduated two years ago, is making a very good living, and exactly the same amount at her place of employment as the nurses hired with a BSN.</p>
<p>I agree with PATC. Yes, there are those who go to community college and continue to move ahead. There are also too many who go there and get lost in life’s happenings. </p>
<p>When I was growing up, there was a very, bright, very motivated girl in my class. She was always a step or two better than I was, just naturally, and she worked as hard or more than I did. Yes, I was jealous of her. I was an excellent student and try as hard as I could, she was just better at things than I. She was the oldest of 7-8 kids and neither of her parents had gone to college. Things were tough at her house financially. Although my family did not have much money, my father was a college graduate and both of my parents really pushed education, books, culture. I had a very stable and supportive home, though we did not have much money. Also my parents managed their finances well. </p>
<p>When we got into our teens, that was when the differences began to show between this girl and me. I continued with my academic priorities while she started socializing more. Still she did very well in school. But when we hit high school, she was no longer on the college track. She spent her time with kids who did not have college heavy on their minds and most of them did not immediately go to school. </p>
<p>Now nearly 40 years later, one can see that she followed the life of her peers. Married young, divorced, several kids, and no time to go to college because you always need the money. She’s a bright, sharp, talented grandmother who manages some stores. I don’t think she regrets her life, overall, or is even aware that she could have taken a whole different road in early high school that would have put her in a 4 year college away from home and with different people with different priorities. I don’t what she would choose if she could have such a choice for her children and grandchildren. I can honestly say that despite some hard spells in my own life, I would not have chosen her route, nor would I want it for my loved ones. Although I ended up in a different set of people than she did, in terms of education in particular, she and I are more alike in background than my college classmates. Though my father and home were both considered “elite” back in those days in terms of books, education, that sort of thing, we would have been on the bottom of the stack in those terms as compared to most of my college classmates.</p>
<p>Your understanding is wrong. Even in New York and New Jersey. New Jersey in fact has 15 separate community colleges (plus several other colleges) offering two-year diplomas meeting all educational requirements for an RN (then one has to take the exam.)</p>
<p>Thanks, Mini. I 'll look up the requirements to become a RN. All of my friends who are nurses have BAs. I was told sometime, somewhere, by someone that to become a RN these days, you need that 4 year degree whereas onece upon a time it was not needed (my MIL’s generation, for example)</p>
<p>^ Consider your wife very fortunate. Some two year nursing programs are worth attending compared to a four year BSN degree. </p>
<p>The article was clearly meant to strike a debate between two groups: those that see college as a vocational school, and those that see it as a place to learn and pursue ones interests.</p>
<p>As for community colleges, if it has a strong program that I want to pursue, then I’ll take the offer. If not, forget it.</p>
<p>I absolutely believe that there are many 2 year programs that are pure gold in terms of getting someone marketable for a good job. There are many such programs out there that are such good value even for those who have already gotten a 4 year degree. I know a number of folks who have gotten themselves in their careers by taking some practical, vocational courses after finding themselves in a job rut with a general college degree.</p>
<p>Nottingham, I think college is also a place where you can open up your world in a way that is difficult to do if you stay local with your old crowd. You can go away to college and still work as a store clerk or take community college courses, but it is not as easy to move into the “sleep away” college world when you have chosen to stick around home grounds.</p>
<p>I absolutely believe that there are many 2 year programs that are pure gold in terms of getting someone marketable for a good job. There are many such programs out there that are such good value even for those who have already gotten a 4 year degree. I know a number of folks who have gotten themselves in their careers by taking some practical, vocational courses after finding themselves in a job rut with a general college degree.</p>
<p>Nottingham, I think college is also a place where you can open up your world in a way that is difficult to do if you stay local with your old crowd. You can go away to college and still work as a store clerk or take community college courses, but it is not as easy to move into the “sleep away” college world when you have chosen to stick around home grounds.</p>
<p>In terms of getting a A.D.N. or a B.S.N., it depends whether or not one wants to do patient care versus having an opportunity to be a nurse manager or some other specialty.</p>
<p>patc, That is a wonderful post (#42). You expressed my feelings about her situation beautifully. I was very aware, watching the video, that this young woman is completely without a safety net - no family support, and from her comments she is supporting both herself and her boyfriend. She is afraid to take what she sees as a risk. I see her situation differently - in my mind, the lower-risk, higher potential option is to go to a 4-year college on a scholarship. I am not expressing “boogie values” or denigrating anyone who went to a CC. I want for this woman exactly what I want for my own children, and it makes me very sad to see her turn away from the opportunities that are there for her.</p>
<p>siserune, you are so right about harsh capitalism for the poor and socialism for the rich. </p>
<p>This story makes it clear that there is much more to opening opportunities for disadvantaged youth than just creating the opportunities themselves. Harvard may, indeed, fall all over its institutional self to offer Tiffany admission with a free ride, but this is not enough to make the opportunity really available to her.</p>
<p>I am really surprised about the move back to non-BS nursing degrees. I remember the 3-year nursing programs at hospitals phasing out as BS degrees were demanded more and more. Perhaps the severe shortage has prompted these changes? I remember when nurses were imported from other countries.</p>
<p>where I work BSN is strongly preferred I am not sure they hard new grads without. mangers must be working toward their masters degrees to be considered. If you can, get your BSN, or if associate degree, work toward it right after finishing.</p>
<p>“In terms of getting a A.D.N. or a B.S.N., it depends whether or not one wants to do patient care versus having an opportunity to be a nurse manager or some other specialty.”</p>
<p>Nope. My wife does case management as well as patient care. The only thing she can’t do in our state without a BSN is school nursing and public health nursing.</p>