<p>CountingDown,
All schools require the new SAT now. What Tokenadult was saying is that some schools will still take the "old SAT" scores into account if they happen to be higher then the "new" ones.</p>
<p>I asked the question because these posts made me wonder if my S had made a mistake by not retaking the SAT in senior year. I thought diff between 2350 and 2400 minuscule and with chances that score may actually go down (yes, colleges may take only the top scores but doesn't look good and may dampen my son's enthusiasm) I dissuaded him from retaking. Was that good advice?</p>
<p>My child already decided not to retake until recently received an advice from a GC. (His/Her argument is that college want to see kids striving for better) Since my kid's SAT score (2370, first try) was taking early Junior, we are wondering if College really want to see a more recent SAT score and he/she should really try one more time? Decisions and decisions. He/She does not want to retake it, but we just want to make sure he/she is doing the right thing.</p>
<p>2370 is just fine. The only reason to go for 2400 would be if your student a) had five hours to waste, and b) you really like bragging about your kid's SAT scores to your friends.</p>
<p>There is no reason to retake a 2350 or 2370 score, regardless of when the student took it. The only thing I am a little concerned about by my s. not retaking his 2290 is that he took it right after the PSATs, and as he will be a NMSF with his PSAT score, they like to see that the PSAT score isn't a fluke and that the student can continue to produce scores in that range. So, will they look down at the fact that the SAT score was from an administration at about the same time? Will they care that he isn't retaking it now or as a senior, to show that he is able to maintain his performance? I can only hope that they will not penalize him for not retaking it, as he has no intention of doing so. Our college counselors have never said that a college cares whether the SAT score is from Jr or Sr year. I don't think there is any validity to that concern.</p>
<p>Our GCs tell the kids to take it junior year and be done with it. They strongly discourage senior year SATs unless one is trying to <em>significantly</em> improve a score. They also push for SAT-IIs immediately after taking the relevant course. DS1 took Math Level II as a freshman and has no intention of retaking in senior year. There is enough going on fall semester senior year with apps, etc. to worry about test scores!!</p>
<p>I would absolutely not re-do a 2370. Read the score report -- it tells you the likelihood of a subsequent test being higher or lower -- and the odds are at that level, the scores may go down.</p>
<p>nngmm--we know folks who were not able to use their (higher) old SAT scores as part of a superscore. Mudd won't take any scores from prior to high school, either. Sorry if I wasn't clear.</p>
<p>jym626,
The only NMSFs I heard of that did not become NMFs were the ones too lazy to write the essay. I don't know how they decide who gets the $2500 scholarship, but a few years ago my son got it, and my daughter, who had higher scores and a better essay did not...</p>
<p>nngmm has pasted in, in post #3 of this thread, a reply originally posted in one of the many other threads on CC about SAT I retakes. I read that reply when it was first posted in the other thread, which I had also posted to. </p>
<p>I have some questions about that reply, from the CC user "AdOfficer." My first question is, do any of us know what college admission office the reported incident took place in? In other words, do we know where AdOfficer works? That would establish quite a bit of context for the reply, I think. </p>
<p>My second question is, does the situation described there, of "a student who, on first attempt, scored 790-800-780
(CR-M-W). The student took the exam another THREE times" fit the typical College Confidential thread in which a sophomore or junior wonders about a retake after scoring between 2000 and 2200? Composite scores of 2370 are quite rare to begin with </p>
<p>and no one admission officer would see a whole class full of cases of retakes after a first score at that level. </p>
<p>My third question is, what about the context of the application? Ben Jones of MIT, in the same earlier thread,
wrote </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>In other words, Ben reminds us that context matters. Now if an applicant wrote, "I took the SAT I seven times because I think that only a perfect score reflects my true abilities" that would probably make an even worse impression than writing, "I only took the SAT I once because I knew I would stop taking it if I was lucky enough to get over 700 on one section," but is that the only possible explanation for why a test-taker takes the test several times? How about if a test-taker writes, "My dad is highly controlling, and he really wanted me to take the SAT until I got a perfect score. I know you admission officers don't care about the last few points between 2370 and 2400, but while I'm still living at home I have to get along with my dad. I'll be glad to be on my own at college next year." Or how about if the statement is "A rich man in our town has endowed a scholarship for the highest-scoring student in our high school, and I know two or three other classmates are trying for that scholarship by taking the SAT more than once. My family can really use the money, and I arrange my work schedule so that I can have Saturday mornings off to take the SAT to try to help my family's college fund." </p>
<p>I agree with the proposition that taking the SAT more than once after a first score of 2370 is quite unusual. But unusual is not the same as harmful by college policy. I note for the record that a Harvard admission officer said at a public meeting this month, "Take it ten times if you want to; it's not going to hurt you." I also note that the Official Register of Harvard University (ISSN 0199-1787) has for several years made it clear that admission test retakes are not a problem. In the 2003-2004 official register, on page 39, it says, "Even if you submit more than one set of scores for any of the required tests, the Admissions Committee considers only your best scores--even if your strongest SAT II Subject Tests or portions of the SAT I were taken on different dates." The most recent version of that publication says, "ou may take tests more than once; we consider only your highest scores." At the top echelon of college selectivity, at least, this doesn't appear to be a worry.</p>
<p>so.... 2290 is ok not to retake, right?</p>
<p>Replying to post #49 after checking the national percentiles </p>
<p>and knowing that the SAT I score report will show the test-taker's grade designation and the date the test was taken, I would think that someone who scored a 2290 can safely NOT retake, and devote time to other kinds of tests (e.g., SAT II subject tests) or to activities that have nothing at all to do with test-taking. </p>
<p>Good luck in the application season.</p>
<p>thanks, tokenadult. SAT IIs are done. Into vacation mode :)
Found this thread <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=350241%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=350241</a> which was also very helpful in seeing the % of students at each of the USNews schools that scored over 700.</p>
<p>Thanks for the link to the other CC thread in post #51 here.</p>
<p>My pleasure, tokenadult. Interesting that Stanford's percent of students with scores over 700 was so low...</p>
<p>Does anyone have any thoughts on why so few schools seem to have more kids with higher verbal than math scores? I have read that selective colleges (other than tech schools) actually prefer higher verbal scores, but jym's link doesn't seem to support that idea.</p>
<p>sjmom-
I wonder if the percentages would look the same for the LACs? I have to wonder if there are a higher number of internationals applying ot the top US News Universities, possibly slanting the verbal/math scores if English is not a first language. Please, no attacks. I am not meaning to sound discriminatory- it is just a thought.</p>
<p>I looked at a few of the top LACs and they are almost equal, or about within one percentage point of each other with respect to the percent that score over 700 on math vs verbal. It'll be interesting when the Writing score data is finally available for comparison.</p>
<p>I read one underlying message about repeats here as "stop taking if your score is sufficiently high as to make no difference in your admission." That would have to be true of the 2370 by Ramaswami's son. But still, there is more than admission at stake, namely the possibility of merit scholarships, and who's to say that getting a few more questions right wouldn't matter for that purpose at some schools?</p>
<p>A second thing I read is that the odds of improving an already high score are not very high. (Remember: regression to the mean is working against you; you could have been "lucky" that first time.) While retaking won't hurt your admission, it may be a waste of time and money. But a 2370 is very unlikely to be a killer even in this aspect so the competition. (My son stopped after his first junior-year SAT I with equivalent scores under the "old" system; the only further tests he took were SAT II's in senior year, on which he also got very high scores after one take, and so stopped.)</p>
<p>A third thing that's implied here is that if your scores are not in the top quartile of all the schools you're applying to, then you might well want to retake with some prep in order to raise your scores. But regression to the mean is still a factor; and there are no guarantees that you'll do better. My daughter had good scores but thought she could do better, so she repeated the SAT I: net gain? 0 points in the composite score, down 10 in the single-test summary. Waste of time? Yes because (a) she didn't prepare for the test, and (b) her scores were well within the top 25% for the types of schools she was applying to (art schools).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Does anyone have any thoughts on why so few schools seem to have more kids with higher verbal than math scores?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think it is because it is MUCH easier to raise your math scores by preparing for the test than to raise verbal ones. The math required is very easy, you just need to practice in order to avoid careless mistakes, and learn some problem solving strategies. There is no way to increase your reading comprehension to a comparable degree in a short period of time.</p>
<p>^^^Agree, mackinaw. I read another underlying message as "don't repeat if there is no realistic chance of improving." So if your scores -- even high scores -- are lower than you think yourself capable of with additional study, by all means take the test again. But if your scores are already in the stratospheric range -- 2370 is certainly an example -- there is no realistic chance to improve, even with additional prep. Getting a 2370 or a 2400 is the result of a combination of brains, test-taking skill, and just plain luck. The testing gods smiled on you that morning. The chances of pulling out that additional 30 points on retake are virtually nil.</p>
<p>With regards to regression to the mean, can someone address whether or not it is actually harmful to experience a lower score on re-take. I agree with Xiggi and Tokenadult that the number of re-takes is really a non-issue for the most part. I also acknowledge that some Universities such as the UCs don’t superscore and only take the highest sitting.</p>
<p>But still everyone gets wrapped up over whether or not a lower subscore in one area diminishes the result of a previous higher score. Certainly a lower second score or no net gain on re-take would lead someone to conclude that it was not worth it, but does it in fact harm the first set of scores? I think fearing a lower score is what most people trip over.</p>