<p>I'm pretty sure tetra is the only one who posts on the Michigan thread who's been. But now I'm training students to qualify (and getting paid for it, booya!) so I'll be getting a pretty strong taste of what it's like this summer. Christine, i think you're the only one I know who's cried upon realization she's doing math instead of having fun...it's as they say, THERE'S NO CRYING IN MATH! Or at least they should. It's freaking hardcore. And tetra, just goes to show that Michigan's makin steps but they're still leagues away from being on par with IL and the east coast. I'm not sure what it is that's keepin you guys down, but you could probably be a big boost if you get involved, bro.</p>
<p>Well, I cried because I'm going to miss people and I'm a fricking women, so I cry... Anyways, to make up for it, I've stayed home almost every other night having fun with numbers this year.</p>
<p>Goddamn, 11 AIME qualifiers. I'm just the second AIME qualifier in my school's history. And I didn't even get to take it cuz my lazy teacher forgot to order it.</p>
<p>Haha. We had like 35 qualifiers, and this wasn't even a good year.</p>
<p>Yeah maguo, 11 qualifiers is probably average for most suburban schools. I made my school start administering the exam my senior year, and I believe 8 of us qualified for AIME that year never having heard of what an AMC was, and my school was had one of the poorest math teams in the state of IL. Sorry you were stuck at such a school.</p>
<p>Damnit. We had 40 kids take AMC it this year. After me, the next highest score was in the mid-80s. I'm probably going to look really stupid when I get to UM and am competing against you guys. Tetra, what kind of school do you go to? 35 is absolutely crazy.</p>
<p>It's a public school that's pretty good at math. The big magnets usually have 200 or more AIME qualifiers. (and close to a dozen USAMOers.)</p>
<p>What? 200? My school must be extremely stupid then.</p>
<p>Like tetra said, mediocre suburban schools will have about 10 qualifiers, good suburban schools like tetra's will usually have 30-100 (depending on size) and the magnets will often have about 200 or so.</p>
<p>My school's a small private school in the nicer side of a city...11 qualified out of 70.</p>
<p>Hence, the strong argument for a real magnet (DCD doesn't count ...) in Michigan. If you look at the USAMO qualifier list, there is an absurd number that come from the same school (5 or more, let's say). The Detroit area has more than enough talent. Michigan would be better off harvesting its middle school population than its university population.</p>
<p>Also, Michigan doesn't seem to be that organized in terms of math. I mean, tetra, what does one have to do to be on Michigan ARML? In Illinois, just miles away, making the team is a much bigger deal, et cetera. I have a few friends who made USAMO and one who made MOP, and the correlation is this: each is in an area that takes math seriously, and has a system to support it (if only by being close enough to a magnet that it affects other schools, even if they cannot attend it).</p>
<p>Qualifying for ARML in Michigan is placing Top 100 on the state-wide math competition, and if we don't have enough people for two teams you can pretty much just ask and be let on.</p>
<p>MI is actually very organized in terms of math - centering around ICAE. In fact, you can consider ICAE a magnet, because most of the people who do well in MI do so because of ICAE, not any school. Almost every single person who has qualified for the USAMO from MI has been to ICAE, most for an extended time. Still, ICAE can't do much to take a person to the highest level ... there you can pick up the skills to get to the USAMO, but not to do well on it. </p>
<p>MI ARML is a big deal, but it really isn't competitive enough to become important. I guess the thing is that there isn't all that much talent in this state, at least compared to a state like Illinois.</p>
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Like tetra said, mediocre suburban schools will have about 10 qualifiers, good suburban schools like tetra's will usually have 30-100 (depending on size) and the magnets will often have about 200 or so.
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<p>My school told me that they replaced the AMC's with the PSAT.</p>
<p>What does that make us?</p>
<p>About as crappy as my school, which stopped doing AMC after my freshmen year.</p>
<p>Michigan definitely needs some more things like ICAE. I hadn't even heard of it until a bunch of my math-friends were like "Oh yeah, we all went to middle school together and did this stuff". Even if they wouldn't be producing USAMO people to start with, it would be nice to have a few magnet type things in Southeast Michigan that would hopefully develop over time. I know over by me (near Ann Arbor) there was really no better alternative that public high school short of commuting out to Cranbrook. Not that I think public high schools can't do a good job, but in my situation the administration is kinda set against kids having maximum upward educational mobility in favor of $$$ (ie, we weren't allowed to take 0 hour classes because we might graduate early, potential dual enrolling students are lied to and guided towards cheaper community colleges instead of michigan).</p>
<p>I go to MI and my school doesn't even conduct the AMC so me and the rest of the kids in my school interested in math have to go to ICAE to take the contests. Hmm, like tetra(Fred) said, ICAE definitely doesn't produce the next greatest mathematical brains of our generation or something because a student needs to not only have exposure to the kind of math tested on those competions at an early age, but also needs to be able to find it relevant to school/future studies so he/she can find time to pursue it at such a high degree. The problem in the American educational system is that it emphasizes the learning of basic concepts and brute memorization of formulas rather than problem solving, creative thinking, induction, and proof writing ability.</p>
<p>Besides, high schoolers math teams are what I believe actually help <em>most</em> students achieve MOP/IMO level mathematical ability. There is a certain allure to solving challenging math problems with a group of people that isn't there when somebody studies mathematics primarily by themselves. That's why PROMYS/Mathcamp/strong high school math teams probably do more to advance interest and aptitude in mathematics rather than mere lectures at magnets like ICAE or independent learning.</p>
<p>Thomas Jefferson High School in Virginia probably has stronger math talent among its top students(~5) due to its reputable math team than the top math students in the entire Midwest portion of the United States...we're only talking about one school here.;) Case in point.</p>
<p>Yeah dictator, it's so hard to pinpoint what the main reasons are. In the honors sequence at Michigan, the good majority of us weren't competition superstars in high school because we didn't go to schools that administered the AMC or promoted math team as anything more than a leisurely extracurricular. Had we been surrounded by people who took math seriously, we would have also, and who knows how things would be different for us. I think getting the word out about programs like PROMYS and Mathcamp or even showing students that math comopetition <em>exists</em> can be enough to get more competitive ARML teams. That's why I'm starting up (and marketing fairly well) some competition math classes where I work. My goal is to give kids the opportunity I didn't have I guess. We'll see where it goes, but I'll have a good time teaching it, I know that much.</p>
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Qualifying for ARML in Michigan is placing Top 100 on the state-wide math competition, and if we don't have enough people for two teams you can pretty much just ask and be let on.
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MI ARML is a big deal, but it really isn't competitive enough to become important. I guess the thing is that there isn't all that much talent in this state, at least compared to a state like Illinois
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<p>Yes, my point.</p>
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In fact, you can consider ICAE a magnet, because most of the people who do well in MI do so because of ICAE, not any school.
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<p>But that's just the thing--ICAE provides some training, but does it truly give the effect of a magnet? Arguably, magnets boost the academics of the surrounding area as a whole, if only by boosting middle school and elementary programs. The principal at Thomas Jefferson attests the school's success to its extremely strong middle school program.</p>
<p>Magnet schools greatest value is their ability to create an awareness in the community, and ICAE does not and simply cannot do that.</p>
<p>--</p>
<p>dilksy, I find it very strange that your high school stopped the AMC--you placed highly in the MMPC, so what's the rationale for stopping good publicity? Money can't be short, the new high school is an airport.</p>
<p>Also, the problem with a magnet southeastern Michigan is simple: population density. Where would you put on? The school would have to be located such that it would draw students from a thirty minute direct drive radius, at most. The only possibility that I can think of would be an Ann Arbor, Chelsea, Dexter and Saline magnet. Actually, that's not a bad idea, though because each except for Ann Arbor only has one high school, creating a magnet runs the risk of castrating the other cities.</p>
<p>Our school stopped pretty much because the head of the math department didn't want to have to deal with it. He's a great teacher, and will "support" things like AMC, but just isn't willing to do any extra work for them. And even though our school has money, I never really see them spend it for getting students a better education. Our auditorium is about 5 times better than any high school should have, we have two swimming pools, one of which has a retractible floor so it can be used for swimming and for water polo, we have entirely new sports fields including a turf football staidum, but none of these things really contribute to academics. We did, however, cut funding for the music program in half (which as far as I know is pretty good), and we bought out most of the older, competent teachers since they cost more. The closest our schools comes to caring about academics is preparing us for the MEAP, because it means we get more money. And even that is worthless because most of the classes teach towards the test instead of the material. I remember in 8th grade science, we used to just go over and over practice MEAP questions on the overhead, assuming our teacher wasn't off on a random tangent.</p>
<p>I don't think having a magnet for middle school programs in the Ann Arbor area would have that much of a negative effect on the other schools mainly because at that level, does it matter that much? We already have kids who leave to go to Greenhills or be homeschooled through middle school because it teaches nothing...why not let them congregate in a positive learning environment? It could also help people at smaller schools in the area like Manchester or Milan where it's not worth having things set up for the 1 or 2 smart people in each class.</p>
<p>Wow, dilksy, your school sounds a lot like mine. My school has more than enough money, and yet we spend it on all this useless technology. We have those "magic boards" in every single classroom, as well as a very complex speaker system in every room. Oh, and we change our computers every year. Then, this year, they decided to buy a thousand new laptops.
My math teacher doesn't give a **** about anything like this. She's always stressing about how she's too busy. I convinced her to do the AMC this year, but she was a pain about it.</p>