A Test You Need to Fail

Parents Forum
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<p>Thanks for locating that link, kayf (#53). The directions do clearly say that the writing will be scored on how well the response is supported with examples or details from the text. On the other hand, that is one item out of 4 in the list. I think that a student might expect that if he/she handled the other three really well, and neglected to cite examples from the text, it should be worth 1.5 out of 2 points, as opposed to 0 out of 2. </p>

<p>The other odd thing about the instructions is that the description of revisions in 2011 seemed to say that the mechanics of writing (spelling, punctuation, capitalization, subject/verb agreement, etc.) would now be tested in the multiple-choice section, and (I thought) not in the students’ own writing. But they are still there in the instructions. Anyone know what’s going on actually?</p>

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<p>QM, if the teacher wanted to complain that the grading was not supported by the instructions, I might buy that (although the grading is so easy it is absurd). But I wonder about the teacher’s reading comprehension as to how she interpreted the instructions.</p>

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<p>This thread is somewhat representative of what is going on in education today. Teachers and public education are under attack. There are those to rise to the teachers’ defense and support them and there are those who blame and find fault with teachers, twisting and turning to do anything but give them the benefit of the doubt. The attack on teachers and the increased privatization and corporatization of education are very disturbing to me.</p>

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<p>“I liked the article. One of the reasons I like the article is very anecdotal – I had a kid, who at the end fifth grade, years ago, <em>flunked</em> a simple standardized writing prompt because it was off topic. The question, if I recall, was, if you could choose to be a character in this book, which one would you be? The student had to write a one paragraph response, and he chose to write something along the lines of, “I would not want to be a character in this book,” and went on to explain why, in a very grammatically correct and coherent way.” It was an original and amusing response. He didn’t respond to the question in the predictable way. It was very well written, however. The paragraph was much more readable and to the point than many of the paragraphs which <em>passed</em> through the filter."</p>

<p>Here is what I think of this whole issue, having had a child go through elementary and middle school in a highly ranked upstate NY suburban school district. </p>

<p>That is the type of answer I would expect any child, who has has wonderful teachers, to submit. Unlike Florida, districts such as this (and mine) do not teach to the tests, at all. Instead, the actually teach things one’s child will need to be a successful student in high school and beyond. These children are not drilled in the minutia of a particular test’s questions and the strategy in answering the question. Most elementary and middle school students in districts such as this go into the test blind. They approach the test as the would any assignment given by their teacher, where they are rewarded for grammar, syntax and a well thought out answer, rather than simply regurgitating facts from a paragraph. </p>

<p>And what I think the teacher is saying in her letter to her students is that the test, in no way, reflects what they are leaning and the level of critical reading, writing and thinking they have mastered. They are far beyond the skill level this test is trying to measure. </p>

<p>When my son was taking these tests 5+ years ago, the parents didn’t even know when the assessment tests were given and when the results came in the mail they simply went into a pile with the other school stuff. </p>

<p>As for the regents, another joke test. The only thing about those is by the time the are in high school the kids are just more “test savvy” and know how to take those kind of tests. </p>

<p>As for the assessment, the majority of kids in high achieving districts in NY do pass and do quite well - and that is despite getting points off for answers like the poster’s child. Their scores would simply be much higher if they were not penalized for knowing how to think and express it in writing.</p>

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<p>I wasn’t attacking all teachers; I was simply commenting on one teacher who chose to write an article describing a test as criminal and insidious. </p>

<p>Would someone please tell me why the use of that language should go unchallenged.</p>

<p>With respect to public education being under attack, who are some stats from the NY Times article:</p>

<p>JUNE 2009 In the previous decade, New York students’ average SAT verbal score has dropped to 484 from 494; the math SAT score has dropped to 499 from 506. The national assessment’s fourth-grade reading scores have been stagnant for four years, and the eighth-grade scores are their lowest in a decade.</p>

<p>But somehow, state test scores again soar to record levels. In New York City, 81 percent of students are deemed proficient in math, and 68.8 percent are proficient in English. “This is a big victory for the city,” the schools chancellor, Joel I. Klein, says, “and we should bask in it.” In November the mayor is elected to a third term, again riding the coattails of sweet city scores.</p>

<p>JULY 2010 Finally someone — Dr. Tisch, the chancellor of the Board of Regents — has the sense to stand up at a news conference and say that the state test scores are so ridiculously inflated that only a fool would take them seriously, thereby unmasking the mayor, the chancellor and the former state commissioner. State scores are to be scaled down immediately, so that the 68.8 percent English proficiency rate at the start of the news conference becomes a 42.4 proficiency rate by the end of the news conference. Shael Polakow-Suransky, chief accountability officer for the city, offers the new party line: “We know there has been significant progress, and we know we have a long way to go.” Whether there has been any progress at all during the Bloomberg years is questionable. The city’s fourth-grade English proficiency rate for 2010 is no better than it was in February 2001, nine months before the mayor was first elected.</p>

<p>Mr. Polakow-Suransky says that even if city test scores were inflated, he is not aware of any credible research calling the city’s 64 percent graduation rate into question.</p>

<p>FEBRUARY 2011 The city’s 64 percent graduation rate is called into question. The state announces a new accountability measure: the percentage of high school seniors graduating who are ready for college or a career. By this standard, the graduation rate for New York City in 2009 was 23 percent.</p>

<p>I don’t think anyone should stand for this and I consider this a blemish on the public education system, but I don’t see this as an attack on teachers.</p>

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<p>agree with what QM says about 0% vs 75%. Additionally, we have the overall instructions, read to the students at the beginning of the time, but we still don’t have the prompts themselves (at least, I don’t see that there. Maybe i’m missing it.) So if, among questions, some started something along the lines of “In your opinion” or “what do you think…” they might prompt a student to think that here is where I’m being asked to think on my own, and/or use appropriate information I know. I don’t know that this is so–this is me Speculating. What I am saying though, is that we don’t know, yet, what the wording is that the writer alludes to.</p>

<p>And agree with Emily; many students do well enough with oddball tests and scoring, but they rarely reflect what’s been taught to them.</p>

<p>My additional beef is that, the less strong students are, the more the teaching to the test occurs. This results in teaching bad writing. I spend most of the start of my freshman comp classes trying to undo the things taught in HS, specifically because the writing that the state tests expect (HESPA here in NJ) is useless in college. A student could be judged highly proficient when in reality they’re only good at 5 paragraph essays with thesis statements along the lines of “this is true because of these 3 reasons” then one paragraph for each “reason” then a regurgitated conclusion. We have to knock that out of them before we can work on good college level writing.</p>

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<p>Shadow–I think the fact that the more we test, the less the students do well, speaks for itself. Thanks for the info.</p>

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<p>A similar (statistical) analogy to Thumper’s: The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.</p>

<p>Applies to these types of tests as well.</p>

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<p>“JUNE 2009 In the previous decade, New York students’ average SAT verbal score has dropped to 484 from 494; the math SAT score has dropped to 499 from 506. The national assessment’s fourth-grade reading scores have been stagnant for four years, and the eighth-grade scores are their lowest in a decade.”</p>

<p>Here is my take on this: NY State has significantly increased it’s graduation rate in the last decade ( I believe more than any other state other than Tennessee.) Students, predominately from socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds, who once dropped out, are now staying in school and taking the SAT, thus reducing the state’s avg. score.</p>

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<p>Nope, not one math assignment, that’s how all the tests were written. In elementary school if you were asked to show your work for 2+3=? you had to draw pictures to get full credit. </p>

<p>I think in all the prep for these tests the kids go in knowing they are supposed to refer to any reading passages. In fact, that’s one of the weirdest thing about the way the SAT essay prompts work - you don’t have to refer to their quote at all. At our school there is prep for the tests, but it doesn’t take up the entire year thank goodness - especially in high school.</p>

<p>I do think it’s possible that more kids are taking the SAT in NYS and that there are more immigrants taking it than 10 years ago. Don’t know though.</p>

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<p>Mathmom, I spent 8 years trying to convince my son to show his work on math tests. And naturally, one slight miscalculation would give him the wrong answer and he would get 0 credit. This was only one of the many frustrations I went through with him. Sigh.</p>

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<p>Reminds me of the time when QMP answered the question “How?” written on a math sheet with “By looking at it.”</p>

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<p>Cartera, I think I have been attacked here for questioning the letter writer teacher’s reasoning, and been told I lack reasoning ability because I don’t know educational gargon. I know in my field, I don’t assume anyone knows any special meanings of words. When people in the educational field do that, it sends a signal that others’ input is not allowed. </p>

<p>I think that some here have twisted and turned to speculate how the teacher’s words might make sense in view of the tests instructions. </p>

<p>Given what our country pays for education, and some of the abysmal results, I think it makes sense for solutions.</p>

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<p>LOL QM!</p>

<p>10 char</p>