A very depressing study on college admissions

Applying to College
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The most depressing data being collected by colleges, IMO, was not even discussed: finanacial information. Everything they are doing with admissions data, you can bet they are doing with financial data provided through FAFSA, CSS, and supplemental forms. The colleges have complete financial information on their customers. They know exactly what price the market will bear.

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<p>This is not true. First of all, some colleges wouldn't do this on principle.</p>

<p>Second of all, some of this financial data is only available to colleges after they've made the admit decision.</p>

<p>Third, it's surprisingly hard to figure out "exactly what the market will bear." You can only go off of what prior students have done, and you have very incomplete information. You know what the price was for your school (as you know exactly what you did or did not offer them by way of aid). But you don't know what the price was at the colleges they turned down for you (assuming you even know what those were). And the same is true for students you lost. You don't always know where they ended up, and you don't generally know what they ended up having to pay. And on top of all that, people don't always behave in economically rational ways when choosing a college.</p>

<p>I am sure there are colleges who wish they could do more of this kind of work, but I believe you are wrong to assume it is widespread--or that it would yield colleges information that they could act on in the way you're suggesting.</p>

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<p>i actually received many calls from Baylor. can't believe he called my house and everything. I was in love with baylor until i took a visit to waco. never in my life..</p>

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<p>What's depressing about this, you ask?! It's all so arbitrary. You can't gauge interest based on correspondence with colleges. I, for one, have only called or emailed when I encountered a problem with getting into app status check sites or something along those lines. I figure, why waste their times (and my money - it's an international phone call to be put on hold for who knows how many minutes) when they've probably got a ton more useful things to do than entertain a frivolous spewing of "Your college is my number one choice!" It's just like campus visits - not everyone can afford it and not everyone can work it into their schedules. Yet for some colleges, this "demonstrated interest" is a factor they consider in the admissions process. Why don't they just tap into our hard drives to see how many links on their websites we've visited?</p>

<p>Hopefully the colleges I've applied to don't put this inane process into practice.</p>

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<p>Im with you cowtipper, I'm off to call my top schools and let them know how I feel lol</p>

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<p>but if you want any merit or finaid, wouldn't this strategy backfire?</p>

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<p>This practice was known to HS guidance counselors back in 2003. My D attended a well-regarded public HS in NYC as a junior. The GC told us that it was good to call admissions offices with specific questions because they count inquiries and register that as "interest."</p>

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<p>Yeah I totally think I am on this list.. Baylor won't leave me alone even though I told the admission officer to his face I wasn't applying... actually a lot of schools won't leave me alone.</p>

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<p>
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You can't gauge interest based on correspondence with colleges.

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<p>Baylor has a regression equation that says you can.</p>

<p>Sure, it's not going to be right all the time, but they wouldn't be doing this unless there was some kind of correlation between correspondence and eventual application and/or enrollment. Maybe you're one of the exceptions, but in a group of prospects, the ones who make contact are, in general, more likely to apply.</p>

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<p>No surprise to me. Just a random study of my son's senior class gave me a clue that this practice might be going on in college admissions. I have said on these boards many times that college is a business parading under the non- profit banner. The sad fact is that many applicants ignore these strategies ,and laugh at me when I suggest that they employ a college coach or use other marketing techniques and so become heart broken when they do not get into their chosen colleges. Instead a more targeted approach similar to target marketing may give one a leg up in the admissions game.</p>

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<p>I think Baylor should keep in mind that they're dealing with teenagers, some of whom like to change their minds every 5 minutes (I was like that at 17, and my daughter certainly is, too)! A kid might be interested today, and then turn their nose up at a school tomorrow. I don't see how they can accurately gauge someone's interest by the number of calls; it just seems so insane.</p>

<p>What if a kid is late a little slow with the college app process? Just because they haven't contacted a school until, say October of Senior year doesn't mean they may be any less likely to attend than someone who's initial contact stated in the beginning of Jr. year!</p>

<p>What about all of the calls that come in from parents? Are they counted, too?</p>

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<p>I think there's some confusion here. There's a difference between recruitment *and *admissions. I hadn't read the article, but based on some of the previous posts, I assumed the article was referring to the admissions process. But now that I've read the article, I see it's talking about both. From article:</p>

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That score helps Mr. Steen and his staff make crucial marketing decisions. Potential applicants with the highest scores receive glossy, full-color brochures. Those who seem less interested may get only an e-mail message or a black-and-white postcard. With limited marketing dollars, the object is to keep the interest of those students who already have Baylor on their radar screens.

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<p>Makes sense to me... I agree with you hoedown. I initially thought we were talking about after an applicant has submitted his/her application (which I have). In any case, I hadn't contacted/called/emailed any college before applying (with the exception of talking to reps at college fairs). And the colleges that sent me mail after mail (a couple of tech institutes, for whatever reason, sent me at least 5 letters/brochures a piece) I didn't respond to. I've got a pile of college brochures and recruitment letters from a lot of schools because I checked the box to receive info from colleges on my PSAT and SAT. Yet I didn't apply to any of those schools.</p>

<p>But to use this data as a factor in whether to admit an applicant seems absolutely ridiculous to me. Hence the depressing part. From the article (abridged):</p>

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Mr. Crockett says it is unethical for a college to use the data on phone calls, e-mail messages, and campus visits to make admissions decisions. Some students may not know that such information is collected, and others may not have the wherewithal to make campus visits, for example.</p>

<p>At Union College, Mr. Lundquist, the director of admissions, says he does just that. After a human being has read each application and debated its relative merit with the admissions committee, the predictive model's final calculations of such factors as who will accept an offer, or how much an applicant will contribute to tuition revenue, may determine whether the college accepts or rejects a particular student.</p>

<p>In recent years, Mr. Lundquist has had to make some difficult decisions. He has, for instance, told his application readers to pull out names of financially needy students that they had planned to accept. Why? The statistical model had predicted that Union's net tuition revenue would be lower than expected given the students he had chosen to admit.</p>

<p>Although no admissions official interviewed for this article would admit to using statistical models to make admissions decisions, one who asked not to be identified said he was fired twice for refusing to employ such criteria. The official, who has worked for two highly selective colleges, is now employed at a less competitive one.

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<p>So I can be accepted based on merit, but not admitted because I don't match a silly statistical model?! That's messed up. But if it's a game that needs to be played... sigh. Is it too late to make phone calls for this year's application cycle? :S</p>

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<p>Can you imagine yourself trying to do recruitment, or admissions, at a school like Beloit? This is a college that has a good reputation for quality and is one of the colleges that change lives. Beyond that there are some daunting problems for recruitment: nearly 100% lily white enrollment, a very small school in an isolated area of the upper (spell that cold) midwest, not very selective with an admission rate of about 70%, SATs in the mid 1200's, relatively few top students (about 35% with a high school ranking in the top 10%), a low yield of about 25% and a cost of attendance way up there at $35k. This may be a great school for the right student, but recruiting good students would be a tough job. I think you would use computer technology and any other available means to analyze and track interest and success of recruitment efforts. I don't see anything depressing about that. I am sure that Beloit and Beloit students will benefit from improved success in recruitment.</p>

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<p>If you look at a school's common data set , you'll note that "demonstrated interest" is now one of the factors that a school might consider. And there are schools out there that carefully track a student's interest in attending....</p>

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<p>"This is not true. First of all, some colleges wouldn't do this on principle.
Second of all, some of this financial data is only available to colleges after they've made the admit decision."</p>

<p>Have colleges kept cost down on principle? A precious few have, but by and large this hasn't been the case. Ursinus had a huge tuition increase and applications went up. This wasn't trial and error; it was the result of a study panel looking at market data. Colleges are no more principled than business in general because they are businesses. The may have more noble objectives that most businesses, but those objectives don't keep them from running the college like a business.</p>

<p>While financial data is provided after admissions data, unlike the latter, financial data is provided each and every year, unless a person has no need to apply for financial aid, which is telling in itself.</p>

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<p>I can't speak for Ursinus. </p>

<p>In my experience, tuition discussions on campuses revolve around the tension between campus needs/prioriories and genuine concerns about affordability (or ongoing lack thereof) for current and future students. Not about what some sophisticated analysis suggests is the absolute upper limit you can charge and still manage fill the seats. That's not exactly great business sense, true.</p>

<p>I would also add that in my experience, when a savvy administrator with a solid, business-oriented, market-driven model for how colleges should be run is appointed, there are tensions on campus because some people (faculty, staff, students, other admins) absolutely rebel against that kind of worldview. Contrary to your belief, campuses are crammed full of people who don't want to run a college like a business. It sounds like a few people interviewed for that article felt strongly enough to be fired for it.</p>

<p>The funny thing is, on some threads people take higher ed to task for not being able to operate like a decent business with a bottom line, accountability, and a strategic plan. Yet in other threads, institutions are skewered for being market-savvy, revenue-oriented jackals. Personally I think the former accusation rings truer.</p>

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<p>did anyone else notice how baylor went from admitting 66% down to 43%? this has to be a record for the biggest drop in one year for a college</p>

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<p>it's useless to fight it. Just play the game</p>

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<p>I felt like baylor was stalking me last spring. They called me constantly, asked my high school counselor about me, and kept saying how much they wanted me to come. Then when I decided against going to utsa late summer and decided to go to texas A&M or baylor instead, A&M said theyd have to discuss it when I asked for my admission to be reinstated even though i had declined their offer, while baylor gave an emphatic yes over the phone.</p>

<p>It was flattering, but I ended up going to A&M anyway.</p>

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<p>There are many students who submit their credentials and expect to be judged on that. Many are too shy to "play the game". It seems a shame that their admissions should come down to that. Just speculating, but I bet scholarship offers may work the same way.</p>

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<p>Wow So Thats What Nazi Germany Was Like?</p>