A Wakeup Call for CCers!!!

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I have an article to present, but before I post it . . .<br>
First of all, I admit that I care a lot about my grades and like many of you, is also a slave of Collegeboard tests and the college admission process. However, I've come a long way since 8th grade. One's life doesn't depend as much on your SAT score, or the undergrad college(grad is a little different) you get into, as you might think. This is why I get extremely frustrated when an 7th/8th grader posts here asking about what they need to do to get into XYZ University or how much they need to study over the next three years to score a 1600.</p>

<p>The following article is from the New York Times and it should serve as a wakeup call to CCers like myself and others. I know that it may come as a disillusionment, but its better that you realize the truth now than to have a post-college crisis after you find out what the real world is like.</p>

<p>Thread is open up to discussion, but please keep your arguments civil and intelligent. No personal bashing, and please make your arguments intelligent, PLEASE</p>

<p>Stay in school, strive for the best undergrad college you get into, work hard, but realize and understand the truth. Good Luck in the college application process (I'm a still current high school Junior ) </p>

<hr>

<p>Heres the article:
Stressed for Success?
By DAVID BROOKS</p>

<p>Published: New York Times : March 30, 2004</p>

<p>Many of you high school seniors are in a panic at this time of year,
coping with your college acceptance or rejection letters. Since the
admissions process has gone totally insane, it's worth reminding
yourself that this is not a particularly important moment in your life. </p>

<p>You are being judged according to criteria that you would never use to
judge another person and which will never again be applied to you once
you leave higher ed. </p>

<p>For example, colleges are taking a hard look at your SAT scores. But if at
any moment in your later life you so much as mention your SAT scores
in conversation, you will be considered a total jerk. If at age 40 you are
still proud of your scores, you may want to contemplate a major life
makeover. </p>

<p>More than anything else, colleges are taking a hard look at your grades.
To achieve that marvelous G.P.A., you will have had to demonstrate
excellence across a broad range of subjects: math, science, English,
languages etc. </p>

<p>This will never be necessary again. Once you reach adulthood, the key
to success will not be demonstrating teacher-pleasing competence
across fields; it will be finding a few things you love, and then
committing yourself passionately to them.</p>

<p>The traits you used getting good grades might actually hold you back. To
get those high marks, while doing all the extracurricular activities
colleges are also looking for, you were encouraged to develop a
prudential attitude toward learning. You had to calculate which reading
was essential and which was not. You could not allow yourself to be
obsessed by one subject because if you did, your marks in the other
subjects would suffer. You could not take outrageous risks because you
might fail. </p>

<p>You learned to study subjects that are intrinsically boring to you; slowly,
you may have stopped thinking about which subjects are boring and
which exciting. You just knew that each class was a hoop you must
jump through on your way to a first-class university. You learned to thrive
in adult-supervised settings.</p>

<p>If you have done all these things and you are still an interesting person,
congratulations, because the system has been trying to whittle you
down into a bland, complaisant achievement machine. </p>

<p>But in adulthood, you'll find that a talent for regurgitating what superiors
want to hear will take you only halfway up the ladder, and then you'll stop
there. The people who succeed most spectacularly, on the other hand,
often had low grades. They are not prudential. They venture out and
thrive where there is no supervision, where there are no preset
requirements.</p>

<p>Those admissions officers may know what office you held in school
government, but they can make only the vaguest surmises about what
matters, even to your worldly success: your perseverance, imagination
and trustworthiness. Odds are you don't even know these things about
yourself yet, and you are around you a lot more. </p>

<p>Even if the admissions criteria are dubious, isn't it still really important
to
get into a top school? I wonder. I spend a lot of time meeting with
students on college campuses. If you put me in a room with 15 students
from any of the top 100 schools in this country and asked me at the end
of an hour whether these were Harvard kids or Penn State kids, I would
not be able to tell you.</p>

<p>There are a lot of smart, lively young people in this country, and you will
find them at whatever school you go to. The students at the really elite
schools may have more social confidence, but students at less
prestigious schools may learn not to let their lives be guided by other
people's status rules — a lesson that is worth the tuition all by itself. </p>

<p>As for the quality of education, that's a matter of your actually wanting to
learn and being fortunate enough to meet a professor who electrifies
your interest in a subject. That can happen at any school because good
teachers are spread around, too. </p>

<p>So remember, the letters you get over the next few weeks don't
determine anything. Picking a college is like picking a spouse. You don't
pick the "top ranked" one, because that has no meaning. You pick the
one with the personality and character that complements your own.</p>

<hr>

<p>also, I would like to make the point that I am not arguing against getting into a good college. I would just like to point out that if a good undergrad university is your ONLY thing that makes you who you are and nothing else, you will be in big trouble once you get to the real world. I've learned a lot from other people who just got out of college and are looking for jobs. Some of them work side by side in the same office, and only if you ask will you realize one came from an Ivy League and the other from a less well known college.</p>

<p>As you know, I am still a Junior at a very competitive NY high school, and I am also part of the Rat-Race for college. I admit I am aiming for the nation's top schools as well. Don't mistaken me for somebody who is sullen from rejection. This post is meant to enlighten only. </p>

<p>It will be interesting to see how parents will respond to this.</p>

<p>Agree 100% with the article.</p>

<p>I personally think it does matter where you get into. I don't know, comparing a university to a spouse is more or less comparing a business to a family... One that stresses professional development, survival of the fittest, hard work; the other is something that stresses equality, nurturing, and equal development of all members.</p>

<p>I think we already know that it doesn't mean everything, but it doesn't mean anything either. A strong education background is important. Of course it's more important in graduate school, but undergraduate carries weight as well... That's just my two cents.</p>

<p>Yes, I already made that point in my post.
Also, please don't criticize the analogy in the post. Just focus on the overall message and what you think.</p>

<p>Nnoetheless, Good Point.</p>

<p>I think you have to take the article in its entirety to get the main point. It's not about whether or not you can or cannot, do or don't, want to go to a prestigious university. It's more about being slaves to the "grades, grades, grades" society. I took the article as a message to be lively, risk-seeking humans who aren't slaves to rules ordained by the CB and mega-colleges. Mostly, it's asserting that the students who go to Ivy Leagues and such aren't the only ones successful in life, and more often they don't have time for more fun endeavours than work and studying, like travel, relaxation at a baseball game, and such.</p>

<p>I wish I could be like some of you guys and discipline myself into getting great grades... I just cant do it. My whole life I have been a biorderline A-/B+ no matter whether the class is Art or "AP something very hard". I just cant do better, except for Social Studies and History courses I guess, which I really enjoy. But does anyone face this problem also? </p>

<p>I have a 3.5+ GPA, not quite 3.6, but ive had these kinds of grades since Elelementary school, and I tend to think I can hold this up in college, but the truth is I dont know. I hope colleges realize this when looking at my app, I have a "C" in French I from 9th grade, but two A's in French IV. Thats kind of what I mean. </p>

<p>I guess the difference might be that to me school is one of my priorities, not THE priority.</p>

<p>I agree with the article, once you learn that school isn't about grades, you get a whole new perspective for learning and life.</p>

<p>School is what you use to prepare yourself for the real world and in the real world, you aren't going to be spitting out facts at command. You will be applying knowledge you know to get your task done, so use school learn the effective ways to do that and you will succeed in life.</p>

<p>I guess I agree with the article for the most part...</p>

<p>The other day, I heard a conversation between two very good students, both with high SAT scores and well rounded extra-curriculars.</p>

<p>One of them was your stereotypical slave, a smart student who studies too much and overreacts to missing a few points on a test... the other guy is very popular, very smart, and also diligent, but he said to the other guy:</p>

<p>"I would rather just go to Ohio State for undergrad on a full-ride, then save my money to go somewhere more prestigious for graduate school when I'm sure about what I want to do"</p>

<p>I thought it was an interesting idea...</p>

<p>lol - "just go to ohio state" - like ohio state is some rural CC in the middle or north dakota...</p>

<p>Bump.. this post is important</p>

<p>there are t\hree messages in this article:
1.don't think if you get into an elite college , everything is bright waiting for you in the future, you still need to compete the rest of your life....
2. don't let tests be the center of your life. there are too many things in the world to enjoy other than laughing at your own perfect test score...read a book, exten your knowledge outsdie the criteeria of the college....
3.do things you want to do
basically this is ******** for me...hahah...if i can't get into an elite college, i wont even have a visa to stay in U.S. life is simple as that</p>

<p>I completely disagree with the part about high SAT scores not meaning anything in the real world. </p>

<p>For example: This year, for the 3rd quarter of English, my class had a student teacher. At first, everybody was excited because we thought we could push the "new guy" around, a welcoming prospect after having a semester with our regular teacher who was very demanding. However, sometime during the first week of his internship, word got around that he got a perfect score on his SATs and went to Rice University. After finding that out about him, our classes opinion of him completely changed and we started respecting his authority.</p>

<p>Conclusion: Even though Mr. Brooks says that learning not being governed by "people's status rules" is an invaluable lesson, the fact of the matter is that these satus rules are very real and will make your life easier where ever you go. That's my take at least.</p>

<p>FlyinV, I'm almost positive that once you get out and start looking for a job or looking for a friend, people will not base their respect on your SAT score. </p>

<p>Your scenario is in the classroom. I doubt his high SAT score alone will get him very far in life.</p>

<p>
[Quote]
I doubt his high SAT score alone will get him very far in life

[/Quote]
</p>

<p>What are you talkin' about? It got him a student teacher position in FlyinV's
school!</p>

<p>
[quote]
What are you talkin' about? It got him a student teacher position in FlyinV's
school!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>ahhh hahahaha!! pwn'd FlyinV</p>

<p>lol, if you give respect to someone because they have a high SAT score, lol that's just straight up pathetic.</p>

<p>Look at it this way--SAT/ACT scores are analagous to a one way ticket: you're only going to utilize your standerized test score, rather ticket once. As soon as you reach your destination per se, no one is ever going to ask you about your scores--ever. By that time, people will care more about what you're majoring in, and where you go to school. On the otherhand, yeah--your score does determine your destination. There are just so many loop holes, but what I think we're suppose to get out of the article is to relax--and that going to any college in itself is suppose to be rewarding.</p>

<p>aww don't ruin her dream.....my dream will prolly die after the SAT in june lol : P</p>

<p>What school do you go to agro?</p>

<p>I dont agree with that article. A stupid kid can get a 4.0 GPA, all he has to do is study for 5-6 hours and memorize all his notes. </p>

<p>SATs are a really good indicator of a persons skills in math and verbal. they are there to differentiate between stupid nerd people who study and make 4.0's or smart nerd people who make 4.0's and learn the stuff. </p>

<p>getting a 4.0 is a piece of cake. My valedictorean has a 17 ACT or a 790 old SAT because she goes home and ''memorizes'' all her notes.</p>

<p>I think that is the point of the article, to point out that even if you have a high GPA and/or high SAT scores, it doesn't determine if you will be successful in the workforce.</p>

<p>If the valedictorian at your school can get high grades only by memorizing notes, she won't be successful in the workforce. The workforce wants people to produce, not regurgitate what is already made. As for the SATs, they may distinguish betwee the smart nerd people and the people who are dumb nerds, but it isn't an indicator of your ability to produce. The SAT is just another test that can be studied for.</p>