Absolutely; and the employment statistics…well, the schools do their best to game them still, with “name” law schools creating law school funded, JD required “jobs” which lasted exactly 9 months…the ABA requirement at the time to qualify as “JD required full time”.
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Yes, essentially above board fraud the ABA permits. Thing is, when these alumni can’t pay the federal loans, the taxpayer has to bail them out.
It was a sad story, a golf partner of mine’s daughter was finishing a bulge bracket analyst stint after two years. She needed a break and wanted three years of law school. She went to one of Paul Campos’ Trap Schools. Struck out at interviewing week and couldn’t quite recover her class rank by graduation. The last semester the career office begged her to take one of the law school funded “jobs” to inflate their stats. A lot of her classmates took them. She refused in part because her father could hire her. Even though it worked out and she likes her family’s company, she reported herself as unemployed because they treated her so shabbily, calling her weekly to demand she take these menial 25k a year stipend jobs that were basically paralegal positions in litigation (she was transactional focused).
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I see my posts have lead to 8 responses from the same two posters, saying the same things they’ve already said, repeatedly. I’m not going to address it all or even read it all, but I hope that prospective law students (and their parents) seek more balanced sources than the endless barrage of bashing in this thread.
Law is not a perfect profession for everyone, and law school is not for everyone, and there are many issues to consider, but the emphatic views presented here - again, and again, and again - aren’t an accurate depiction of law school or the legal profession.
To be clear, I am not defending Cooley or any school dealing in blatantly deceptive practices for the purpose of bilking students out of their money. The “bashing” and “impugning” happens when posters claim that practices taking place at a handful of predatory schools are “incredibly common” and “the norm.”
As for the ABA reporting requirements, while I wish the ABA had gone further, the requirements cut against the overblown ABA as evil co-conspirator narrative in this thread. If nothing else, by requiring transparency the ABA has provided applicants the opportunity to better understand the odds. It’s not perfect and it could be improved, but it’s not nothing either.
Since you want to deal in facts and not “fibs,” will you identify which schools were falsely stating that “99% of our class is employed in jobs paying over 100k/yr?,” and provide the source for your claim? Thanks.
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Yes, we took eight posts to address every point you made and the points each of us made with thoroughness. No, it was not repetitive, hence why other posters have thanked us for providing more information.
We have stated when law school can be appropriate to attend.
These are not merely a “handful” of predatory schools. There are dozens and dozens of predatory institutions aside from the ones that closed down since 08. Of the ~200 ABA schools, 150 are total dumpster fires. The term used in most law forums is “TTT: Third Tier Toilet” because of a blog called “Fourth Tier Reality” where a Midwestern law graduate covered every single law school and exposed why going to Harvard at sticker isn’t exactly a good idea. His name was Nando, and he didn’t even have much debt when he graduated. Of course, his alma mater (which I won’t name) threatened him with lawsuits.
The ABA is a horrific organization that has accomplished none of its explicit goals. Its overriding concern is consumer/client welfare, yet sleazy attorneys run wild because you have hundreds of thousands of attorneys ages 25-80 who struggle to make 30k a year. They will pilfer client funds and do unspeakable things to get by. Meanwhile the most frivolous claims are investigated by the ABA and its state appendages. Pro tip: if you are a solo or small firm litigator, buy insurance for malpractice. A good fraction of cases you lose, if you’re dealing with criminal law/personal injury, will end up with your client reporting you.
The ABA is the same organization that approved a law school next to every new Chinese takeout restaurant and gives a JD with every Happy Meal. Law isn’t a profession, which implies some guild-like qualities. Rather, the ABA farms your earnings and then signs off on AI and exporting doc review/low level legal work to India and Southeast Asia. Of course, the board and leadership of the ABA has been law profs and big law partners for decades. The former can’t be fired and face nearly no market pressures while working ten hours a week (see Paul Campos’ description) and the latter is in a whole different line of work than 99/100 attorneys, basically the lead coal shoveler for corporate America.
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Might I remind members of the forum rules: “Our forum is expected to be a friendly and welcoming place, and one in which members can post without their motives, intelligence, or other personal characteristics being questioned by others."
and
“College Confidential forums exist to discuss college admission and other topics of interest. It is not a place for contentious debate. If you find yourself repeating talking points, it might be time to step away and do something else… If a thread starts to get heated, it might be closed or heavily moderated.”
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/guidelines
This thread has devolved into a debate between a few users. If you post multiple times in a row, or multiple times per day, you may be turning the thread into a debate no one wants to read. Please be mindful of your posts and that you allow everyone to participate. Don’t take the bait if someone tries to provoke you. Don’t flag a post solely because you do not like what another user has to say. It may be preferable to just put that person on mute and move on with the conversation.
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Here’s a start: How Law Schools Completely Misrepresent Their Job Numbers: A Law School Professor Investigates | The New Republic
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The author Paul Campos has an interesting career, to say the least: Paul Campos - Wikipedia
I am sure there are truths in what he says, but to say that law school and the legal profession is a scam is, without a doubt, hyperbolically wrong.
Again, for those considering law school and the legal profession, please consider multiple sources, not just Campos. There are many, many great things about the legal profession. Some of my law professors were downright inspirational and completely opened my eyes to things I had never even contemplated. Not just facts, but a new way of thinking. Isn’t that really what education is about?
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I’d suggest that many, if not most, law school graduates seek employment over everything else. “Inspiration” is great, but it doesn’t pay the student loans.
And yes, check multiple sources; the ABA required disclosures are a good place to start:
https://www.abarequireddisclosures.org/
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It sure did in my case! But you know what some say about anecdotes… 
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I read the Campos article when it came out a decade ago, and reviewed it this morning. As usual, Campos had an extremely heavy hand on the scales to try to push his point. Nonetheless, he did point out some of the problems with the way law schools had been reporting their statistics, and that’s a good thing. Fortunately much of what he complained about had just been addressed, at least in part, by the ABA. Ten years ago.
In short, whatever it’s initial usefulness, it is at best old news. It doesn’t provide much current information for potential applicants. That is what we are doing here, right?
Also, with regard to your claim, I don’t believe the article named any law schools which state “99% of our class is employed in jobs paying over 100k/yr.” Without providing context or citation, the article did claim that some law schools “trumpet employment figures of 95 percent, 97 percent, and even 99.8 percent” but nowhere does he say that 99% of students are employed in jobs paying over 100k/yr. That’s an important distinction; claiming a high percentage of employment at any job is very different than claiming a percentage of employment at extremely well-paying jobs. So, again, do you have a source for your particular claim, or is it just more hyperbole?
ETA: Also, for those who might be looking at the Campos article for insight into today’s legal market, you may want to keep in mind that it was written during a major recession in the legal market, and as is suggested by various articles posted by @Publisher, the market isn’t exactly the same now as it was then.
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Thanks for your concern, skieurope. As I understand it, the CC mods are volunteers, so we appreciate your efforts.
I will say the back and forth on this thread provides interesting insights. Folks with differing careers and life experiences bring a lot of detail and nuance to each aspect of the discussions. It’s interesting and helpful for others who don’t have similar backgrounds. E.g., while I’m an attorney, I did not know some info posted re: the ABA, nor the scholarship limits. And I appreciate the counterpoints on both those topics, too.
Following up on Publisher’s comment upthread - the US legal system is adversarial in nature - both sides strongly present their perspectives, as pursuasively as possible. The goal - at the end - is to get to the truth.
Perhaps law school related threads could be given a bit of latitude, as they likely contain a number of folks trained in the adversarial system. 
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Alternatively, perhaps not.
On this thread with 132 posts, 23 posts have been flagged by 8 different users, several of whom are practicing attorneys. More latitude does not seem to be warranted. Not that the Forum Rules are being put up for discussion and a vote. 
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So after my message above, another user felt compelled to post something in violation of ToS, which was flagged
Clearly, more latitude is not the guiding force. The thread has exhausted the moderating team. Closing.
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Thank you.
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