Daughter is applying to study abroad in the Fall of 2022 and trying to decide between study in in Paris (Sorbonne) or in London (Kings College). In Paris she would be living with a family provided by the program.
There are plusses and minuses to each program - mostly wondering if anyone has input about the culture and relative enjoyment students have gotten while studying abroad in Paris (we have heard on a few occasion’s that Paris can be depressing for students studying abroad due to culture differences.
The Paris program is in French and requires advanced French which she has. She is at the point in French studies where the only thing left is an immersion experience. She is not planning a career in French but is an International Relations major and adding proficiency to her studies could be helpful (that’s the appeal of the Paris program)…but the Paris culture is the question mark.
I spent a year in Paris as a student with a good command of French. It was hard but very rewarding. There are some rude Parisians (sorry Parisians but it’s true) but it wasn’t enough rudeness to spoil my experience. There are also some super lovely Parisians that will make your daughter’s experience worthwhile. There are also MANY students that are not from Paris. I made lifelong friends from the South of France, Austria, Switzerland, Romania, Spain and China. This was a while ago. Last time I was in Paris for a conference I was pleasantly surprised by the friendliness of my random interactions with the people of Paris. Maybe things have changed and there is more acceptance of us foreigners? I don’t know. I can wax lyrical for hours about the city itself, the arts, the food, the music, the cafes, the hopping on the metro and exploring a different arrondissement every weekend, trips to the seaside, Mont St Michel. It was hard but fabulous!!!
London is also lovely but I would recommend the “stretch” experience (London will be a cultural stretch but not so much a language stretch). Your daughter might feel otherwise! Both will be a great opportunity for her. I wish her luck!
If she is headed in an IR direction then 1) the language skill is critical and 2) learning how to adapt / cope with being in somebody else’s culture is essential.
It’s hard to generalize in a helpful way, but finding a situation depressing- even if it is challenging!- is not inevitable. Being an outsider / newcomer does require putting yourself out there in a way that is not familiar to a lot of people. However, if your daughter is willing to try things, to not take it personally when people have different cultural cues and expectations than she is used to, to explore and find adventures even if she has some on her own, it won’t be depressing!
I’m not sure what it is exactly about “Paris culture” that has you all so anxious- for somebody with good French it shouldn’t be any harder than London (perhaps the similar language of London fools people into thinking that they get British culture more than they do?!).
My son heads out Jan 22 for a semester abroad in Paris, Sorbonne and one other school. I’ll try to remember to check in with you after a month or so! He also did a one week school trip there in high school. My daughter did a 6 week summer study abroad in Paris. She absolutely loved it. Not a single complaint except for one of her college teachers was new to teaching abroad and D felt she gave them way too much work LOL. I visited for a few days at the end of her program and, while it was only a few days, didn’t encounter any Parisian rudeness LOL. PS D took Spanish in high school and did not have any college French before her program; still got around just fine (one of her courses there was introductory French). Son’s program has a higher requirement but it sounds like your D is set on the language.
Tough call, as both cities can be exciting for students. I’ve lived in both places and also studied in London - Paris is more exotic for Americans and fluency in French can be quite helpful professionally but my impression is that London is more diverse/cosmopolitan and more of a crossroad internationally (of course, I am sure some people will disagree).
Both cities are generally safe, although I feel there are more day-to-day hazards in Paris (e.g., metro pickpocketing) - manageable if one takes sensible precautions.
But if I have to choose, I’d pick Paris - it is more compact and accessible, provides opportunity to become fluent in French, and is easier to travel to other parts of Europe. Living with a French family also looks quite appealing, including from a parent’s perspective.
I am sure what I am about to say will offend a few people on CC but, as a long-term expat in Europe, I’ve observed certain cultural traits/behavior displayed by some Americans that don’t play well in Europe - speaking loudly, being impatient with speed of service (particularly in France), making stupid jokes such as why do the British drive on the wrong side of the road, etc. Avoid that, and things will likely go more smoothly and the experience will be more enjoyable.
Paris, for sure! It sounds like the most immersive and also the most “different” thing from what she is doing right now. She may have an opportunity to do things in London later, grad school or not, but living with the host family in Paris is the most immersive thing to do. Just be careful how her school credits align toward the graduation, curriculum is different sometimes, and every school has their own grade conversion system.
S15 had his Study Abroad semester in Hong Kong’s HKUST and had lived with the host family in Japan when he was in elementary and high school (same family both times, it was amazing), those were transformative experiences.
Also - fall in Paris is truly special! London is also a short trip from there to visit though!
Good luck!
Absolutely. The Americans I knew in college in the UK thought they were fitting in, but many of them stood out like a sore thumb (brash, outgoing, loud and overly friendly compared to British reserve). Perhaps some French people will snub you to your face, rather than laugh at you behind your back, but I don’t think cultural compatibility is a good reason to pick London over Paris.
Tough call. So much going on in both places. She is fluent in French so I give the nod to Paris. I’m a die hard fan of London, but I sometimes feel there are no Brits in London these days. The history is great, but it doesn’t always feel very British, until you get out of the center. I do think it’s easier to get around in London. As far as safety, I think it’s about equal.
She will have a great experience in either city, so she perhaps ought to base her decision on the best program for her needs.
My take had been: Why bother going to study abroad, if it’s going to be London. You might as well just go to the opposite coast in the U.S.
So, yes, I would very much favor a foreign-language country, as that adds so many additional layers to the “studying abroad” experience, beyond being “name only”. And given her French language level, this will be the absolute icing on the cake as far as foreign language proficiency.
I get by in France and my French is pretty limited. I haven’t noticed anyone being rude in Paris lately, maybe because so many Parisians have moved to Bordeaux! Ha ha…. I prefer Paris to London, and I enjoyed this journalist’s line: “summon the vinegar.”
At her age, I wouldn’t want to live with a host family. Too much risk of incompatibility. It may make it hard to socialise with other young people - you can’t just ask them home.
It’s true that London didn’t lately seem very English anymore, it was majority immigrant when I was there a few years ago. I’d still call it “British” though. A true melting pot and international city, more so than NYC. This may have actually changed somewhat with Brexit and Covid, Britain has lost quite a bit of its foreign born population and most will have exited London.
In her case, I’d go to France only if she really wants to go to France. Learn the language, eat the food, love the beauty. That’s how you can take the drawbacks with the benefits.
Hi everyone, thanks for the helpful and thoughtful input - this is what I like best about CC boards. D has decided to apply first choice to Paris and 2nd to London. She really does want the fluency of an immersion experience after so many years of taking French and it will be an excellent support to her resume for future IR job applications.
Love Paris, love France and terrible at French! I’ve not had any of the rude Parisian experiences in twenty plus years of regular travel to Paris and France. And I am most definitely animated in speaking and I will always try to speak French and am polite, but can’t speak French well at all. Not sure what cultural differences there are that would be concerning - but living in a house would be more challenging than your own space in an apt or dorm. Navigating Paris I feel much, much safer than I do in London, and have since I first went to Paris. It is a gorgeous, walkable, full of life city and I would highly recommend it. I would also encourage her to take the Chunnel to London and spend some time too. Love the Chunnel, such a fun and easy experience vs flying. Paris is dreamy, my children have been there with me on one on one trips and they love it. They have been to London at least a couple of times, and they like it too, but Paris is special.
I missed that it’s just for one semester as opposed to a full academic year. France makes more sense that way - easier to stick it out if there are aspects about the experience that really chafe.
I believe that, in order to cope with any difficulties that may come up, it is very important to choose to go abroad for the right reasons - because you want to be, specifically, there, not for the “experience” or the CV or because it’s cheaper or whatever.
Hope she has an excellent time. Bertillon’s ice cream on ile st Louis can make up for a lot!
