Academic dishonesty question

Parents Forum
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I was volunteering in my son's classes in public school from K-4. Every teacher made it absolutely clear about this whole issue. We worked with the kids on citing and paraphrasing and the whole deal from kindergarten on--in public school. Who is missing this?

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<p>Well, schools differ in how much they emphasize children doing individual work. My kids went to an alternative (private) school for K-8 where it was common for students to talk to each other about their assignments. There weren't any grades, so that was a non-issue.. In 7th grade, the teacher administered a standardized test just for practice and required the kids to work alone on it. She said she always got a lot of blank stares from the kids when she explained these rules - they didn't get it. Why wouldn't you want to talk with a friend about your misconceptions and obstacles? It is a strange concept, when you think about it - adults don't function like that in the workplace.</p>

<p>It does sound like the kids in this situation probably knew that they were breaking the rules, but I don't think those rules are all that "natural" and obvious.</p>

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<p>"I remember being shocked my first time or two on this board lurking and seeing kids talk about how they make stuff up to score well on their SAT essay."</p>

<p>Youdon'tsay--As a parent, it's definitely easy to feel ambivalent about the SAT "creativity" thing. </p>

<p>Here's something even "better!"</p>

<p>In my D's AP Lit class, while prepping for the test, the teacher gave the class examples of actual essays that had been written in past years to illustrate what the range of scores look like. She gave them an essay that was extremely well written but earned no credit, because the writer made up the author, the book and the characters and plot and themes, etc. The entire thing was a fabrication. The class thought the student should have gotten the highest score for sheer creativity as well as for execution. The AP board begged to differ. </p>

<p>Now, you'd think that a student with so much going for him--imagination, intellect and the necessary literary analysis and writing skills could manage to read an actual book and write an appropriate essay.</p>

<p>There's obviously a disconnect here for many kids who think that bending the rules is the way to go. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, too often, I think that teachers and administrators send mixed messages and don't always set the best examples. It's frustrating and disheartening. </p>

<p>HW copying is rampant at D's school. The top kids are way overscheduled and get little sleep. Taking 6 or 7 APs and having 6 hours of HW and 3 hours of ECs every day creates problems with time management for students. They learn to game in order to survive. Copying/cheating is out in the open. Very few kids ever face any consequences and most of the teachers and administrators turn a blind eye--they have their own agendas. </p>

<p>I agree with Calreader, the "rules" aren't always obvious, because there is so much inconsistency. For our kids, in HS most of the emphasis is on grades and getting into college--not on learning in an intellectually nurturing environment. </p>

<p>If we don't want kids to cheat the system has to change.</p>

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<p>My friend's situation prompted some dinnertime conversation at our house. I was somewhat appalled that both my son and husband thought it was OK to exchange answers sometimes. The example they gave: </p>

<p>A sub gives out a packet with a reading and 25 questions. They thought it was perfectly appropriate for five of them to get together and split up the questions, saying that if it's just regurgitating facts they didn't think it was a big deal and that if the sub/teacher wanted more rigorous work from the students she should give a better assignment!! </p>

<p>I told ds that his disdain for an assignment should not lull him into thinking he can cut corner without getting clarification first. But he did concede it would never be acceptable if something asked for an analysis or interpretation. You can't copy someone's thoughts.</p>

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<p>All that and no one suggested that they should get a 50 instead of zero for doing half the work...</p>

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<p>I mentioned the OPs situation to my S who just graduated from HS. He says that sharing answers is the standard way that most kids do homework at his school. The teachers don't assign it that way, but that is the way it is done, and no one ever gets in trouble for it. He also says that it is not just the extremely busy kids with multiple APs, sports and ECs who do it. All the kids, even those in AP classes, do their homework at the very last minute and may do a small part themselves. Then they switch with other people in the few minutes before school starts, or in between classes. He says they are all extremely lazy. My kid did everything as far ahead of time as possible and didn't share answers; guess he is just wired differently from them. He is glad to be moving on.</p>