Academic prestige vs $$/sports

Parents Forum
1

<p>There have been numerous posts here about the potential importance of the "prestige" undergraduate degree in determining one's marketability after graduation. </p>

<p>I am posting this re: a friend's situation. Her son is a very high-achieving student who happens to be a very good athlete. He has been offered a very generous academic merit scholarship plus a large athletic scholarship, which would bring down the cost of attending the school only $5K a year (this is a $50K+ school). The school is very, very strong in her son's sport. The problem is, that it has a mediocre academic reputation, and the players on the team are deciedly NOT serious students, mostly majoring in what she calls "fluffy" majors (criminology, communications, etc). Friend's son is also being heavily recruited by every Ivy and numerous other "high academic" schools, which are significantly weaker in the sport. Her son is interested in going pro in the sport, but the chances of succeeding are quite small. </p>

<p>The main question is: if he doesn't know what he wants to do career-wise (other than his sport), what are the advantages to going to an excellent academic school that might offset the financial and athletic advantages of this opportunity?</p>

2

<p>Does this family need the athletic scholarship in order to afford to go to college?</p>

<p>If they can afford for him to forgo the scholarship, and he was my kid, I’d encourage him to go to the more academically inclined school. He still has the opportunity to go pro from anywhere. And there will be lots of life after sports, whenever it is the sports end. He needs a back up plan for a career and the education to back that up for whenever the sports end, whether that be during college, upon graduation, or at the end of a pro career.</p>

3

<p>What is their financial situation? If they would qualify for a good amount of need-based aid from Ivy’s, it could offset the lack of scholarship. Being an athlete at a prestigious school would help him focus on his studies, as he would need to in order to keep his grades up. Ivy’s are also very good with making sure studies come first with athletes (no morning practices, no two a days, limited other practice time, strict study halls, etc). Other top schools (non-ivy) could offer him significant athletic money if they are a bit of a weaker team, which would allow him to get both the $$ and the strong school.</p>

<p>On the other hand, the schools that are generally good in sports often happen to be quite large universities, which would give him a variety of choices for good academic tracks, as he will probably end up changing his mind many times. If he does indeed have a shot at going pro, it would be best for him to go to the top school for his sport. He really needs to assess his ability and his potential for a future beyond college.</p>

4

<p>If he does go pro in the sport, he should read this article:
[Recession</a> or no recession, many NFL, NBA and Major League - 03.23.09 - SI Vault](<a href=“http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1153364]Recession”>http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1153364)</p>

5

<p>He should look at Notre Dame, Duke, Stanford, Virginia, Cal, UCLA and Michigan. There are others. he can play at the top level (if he is good enough) AND get a wonderful education with a degree recognized as academically serious - assuming he opts for a serious major.</p>

<p>If he goes an Ivy, he may be elligible for FA, but that depends on his families finances.</p>

6

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<p>This is a good point. If he has not been recruited by any of these colleges, then he is probably not good enough to go pro (but of course there are exceptions, like running at Oregon). In that case, I’d recommend he go to one of the Ivies, which will serve him better in this economy career-wise than a mediocre academic college.</p>

7

<p>I met someone last weekend whose son, much to the parent’s dismay, turned down an Ivy for Loyola Marymount (and an athletic scholarship) because he wanted the better platform from which to make it to the pros, and he preferred living in Southern California.</p>

<p>So far, it has worked out for the son. He liked LMU fine, graduated, and is being paid to play his sport. When his pro career ends, and assuming he isn’t rich enough to retire, he is confident in his ability to get a real job with his LMU degree, which is in a practical field he could not have studied at the Ivy. The son doesn’t care a whit about academic prestige; the parent, a successful professional and entrepreneur who went to a different Ivy, does, a little.</p>

8

<p>Like Glidos post.</p>

<p>Friends son chose an Ivy. Played a sport. rec’d financial aid (or was it sports scholly in disguise!!!). Did not love the school. good job prospects upon graduating though. </p>

<p>Can tell you that 2 of my friends had sons in the past 2 years go pro. (Well off to their minor leagues for the meantime… One graduated Delaware (soccer and is now kicker for major NFL team), and other was on Clemson baseball and recruited to MLB. Not a bad way to start!!!</p>

9

<p>Agree with posts 5 and 6. It does not have to be an either / or situation. The biggest problem I see is how you describe the prospective teammates. Even if we presume the athlete can wrangle a good education out of a mediocre school, he may have a difficult time socially if he wishes to be a serious student in an environment where others don’t share his priorities.</p>

10

<p>I don’t have any kid in sports, so take this with a grain of salt. I would ask my kid if he/she would go to the school without the sport. I said that to my girlfriend when her son was looking at Div 1 swimming. Her son was adament about going to a school where he could continue with his swimming. He chose a school for his sport, then he realized that his major (for him to get the job he wanted) was very demanding and also had a conflict with his training. After a year at school, he decided to drop his sport so he could take necessary courses for his major(he had conflict with scheduling). But companies he is interested in working for do not recruit at his school.</p>

<p>High schoolers tend to believe they will continue with their ECs (sports, music, dance…), so they want to go to a school which would allow them to continue their interest. At the end of the day, they are not going to Olympic or turn pro after college, but they will need their diploma to go to a grad school or get a job. People go to college to get an education, not to play sports.</p>

11

<p>Our daughter is already getting “contacted” by coaches for her sport. She wants to play in college but not at such a high level that it interferes with her education. She has the talent to play for a top 25 school but doesn’t want to miss that much school. She is looking at all 3 levels of play and in the end it will come down to who gives her the best package, but, her first criteria for picking a school is that they have a strong science program. She wants to go into medicine but we will see how that unfolds down the road. She is looking at her sport as a way for her to help pay for college and nothing more.</p>

12

<p>If your friend’s son is really that good and being courted by the Ivys, they will find a way to give him some FA, they will NOT be paying the full freight.
My son was a starter in a HS baseball team that was ranked within the top 10 in the nation by USA Today. Many of his friends chose the baseball scholarship route and out of hundreds of kids he played with/against through the years only 3 have made it to the bigs. Several stayed in the minors, triple A for years making $15K a year and then cut at at their late twenties. They are still looking for full-time employment.</p>

<p>My son chose the Ivy, knowing there’s no chance he could make it to the show.He gave up his sports to concentrate on his studies which is now paying off.</p>

13

<p>Just wanted to give a heads up about my son’s Ivy D1 experience. He DID have 2 practices a day, needed to be there for first practice before 5am and again later that afternoon. Had to be to school before it was in session in August, stay for Thanksgiving break and be there for spring practices. (This was 1.5 years ago.)</p>

<p>He had NO mandatory study hall, no limits on practice times and extra time was devoted to weight training in addition to 2 a days. His financial aid was based on our FAFSA numbers and the school’s own FA forms. He did have outside scholies as well but those were based on his academics not athletics.</p>

<p>Contrasted with his sis who turned down an Ivy (different Ivy than son) for a much bigger sports school for her sport, and she turned down her athletic scholie offer for the school’s academic merit scholarship + financial aid. Her workout schedule, practices, meets and travel were no more extensive than her brother’s. She had winter practice, but he had more hours per day. She picked her D1 school based on her coach and where he was taking the team…regionals, nationals. She actually did have mandatory study hall, her own tutors and academic mentors, had special housing, huge travel allowances from her profs and an advisor that helped structure her schedules (semester classes and daily.)</p>

<p>Son did not have any such support. He and his fellow teammates pretty much did it on their own. Comparing notes the two had 2 very different experiences. </p>

<p>Don’t know if this is true for all the other ivy’s or other sports, just know this was son’s situation at his ivy.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

14

<p>I do not see any reason to pay for ANY UG. Yes some indicated that if a kid wants to be on Wall Street, he better attend Ivy UG. I cannot advise in this area, not familiar. The few majors that I am very familiar, UG will not matter at all. If kid is planning to go to Med. School, definitely go for the cheapest option where child fits well both personally and in wide range of interests. The other majors are engineering, CS, Graphic Design. There is advantage of being in Co-op program as they normally start working at one their co-op places. Co-op programs are very common. Also, most engineering firms recruit locally and many companies are also looking for programmers locally. Again, people mentioned Google, Microsoft,…etc. Do not aim at specific employment place. The vast majority of programmers are working for huge range of companies in various industries. I mentioned only fields that are part of my family. I am not familiar with any others.</p>

15

<p>Re: katwkittens’ post: D asked about practice schedules and time commitment at every school she visited officially and unofficially. For her sport also, there didn’t seem to be a smaller commitment for the Ivies vs. top academic Div. 1’s. The one exception was an Ivy whose team was at the bottom of the league. The Ivies made a point that they viewed their athletes like all the rest of their students. That’s comforting, but the fact is they aren’t like everybody else. They may be every bit as smart, but have a lot of demands on them that they have no control over, eg. competition and travel schedule. Unlike someone who’s participating in a club or different sort of EC, if their workload is extra heavy they can’t just bow out, skip the event or meeting, delegate some responsibilities, or reschedule in order to manage their academics. They need more sleep to avoid injury and to maintain optimal performance, so sleeping fewer hours is not a sustainable option. I could go on, but the point is the athlete might have a better experience at a school which prizes their athletes, recognizes the extensive demands on their time, and therefore makes simple accomodations like holding career information sessions for athletes at an hour that they can definitely make it rather than at 5 PM. Notice I am not talking about dumbing down. I’m talking about flexibility.</p>

16

<p>I would be very careful about sport commitment in college. Few coaches were after my D. But she decided not to pursue it and relied on academic Merit awards. Most of her teammates quit after attempts to pursue their sport at college level. Just too much and assumption that they will sleep the same amount in college as they used to in HS is absolutely incorrect. They will NOT. Again, it depends on sport / major / GPA requirement for future goal / other ECs… In my D’s case as serious as she was about her sport, the combination did not work out even at the club level…and she still could not sleep the hours she used to while in HS.</p>

17

<p>Same with my sons. It was flattering to have colleges show interest, but neither decided to really pursue it. One did briefly(had been all state in his sport) but decided it would just not be for him. They both decided they preferred to be regular college students. One did club(which involved tryouts) for a year in college but even found that too time consuming (instate and out of state tournamnets, practices), and dropped it after the first year. Both in engineering so balancing sports in college would be tough, especially for that kind of major.</p>

18

<p>IMHO, you might be better off looking at Division 3 schools. Technically, they are not allowed to give out athletic scholarships. However, I have heard several stories of “preferential packaging” given to students that a school really wants. This way, if the sport doesn’t work out (for whatever reasons) the financial and/or merit awards would remain.</p>

19

<p>Also, the school ideally should be one the kid would be very happy to attend regardless of the sport.It does happen that kids drop out of a sport they were recruited for-especially at schools that do not offer athletic money.</p>

20

<p>You can’t necessarily judge their intellect by the majors listed on the roster. Check their web page for his sport now. There should be some listed as having won scholar athlete awards. One D3 football conference that I know of announced a list of “honor roll” athletes. There are some athletes at non-ivies that are also good students.</p>

<p>He has to decide what he wants and really realize what he gets at each school. He should visit overnight and get to know people and the campus. It might give him some good insight. The coach can set that up.</p>

<p>Unless he is being recruited by some of the biggies in his sport, he is probably NOT going to make it to the pros and should not choose based on that.</p>

<p>FIT is what he needs to check. Will he like the environment at the Ivy? If he doesn’t like it there socially, academically, geographically, whatever, it won’t be the right choice.</p>

<p>If the Ivy leaves him with lots of loans it’s probably not the right choice. If he is afraid the non-ivy teammates will drag him down, then it’s not the right choice…</p>

<p>Is the other choice THAT easy to get in? Why did they say is has a “mediocre” reputation? Is he they type that needs more of an academic challenge or is this school likely to have others of his ability. Once again, FIT.</p>

<p>FIT first, with $ a close second. He can play the sport anywhere, but he has to like it. He can work for his pro dream as long as he realizes it is a DREAM. But, dreams can come true… </p>

<p>Also, the non-ivy may be a good balance. Maybe it will challenge enough academically without making him give up his sport and his social life. Maybe it will give him a well rounded experience rather than just his nose in a book all the time. </p>

<p>S2 made the wrong choice. He liked a lot of things about his school when he visited, but we all discounted the fact that it was a very small school, which I knew wouldn’t fit his personality. The people turned out not to be his type either, except for the football team. He ended up transferring to the bigger school closer to home. We weighed wanting to be further away against school size and made the wrong choice. This is why I say to check the FIT.</p>