academically less selective?

Schools that are perhaps not as academically selective for admittance that have MT programs? North south or east coast please, no CA or farther west…thanks!!

Midwest or true east coast?

As I understand it, Pace is not academically selective - in fact, out of the more than a dozen people I know who have applied in the last two years, all have been academically accepted with merit scholarships (one who had a has gpa under 3.0) Now artistic is another matter…

nothing to far west. Mainly NY, OH, PA, KY, Tenn, SC, NC, NY, NJ, New England, VA, GA

Are you looking for programs than may be both less artistically and academically selective (although pretty much all auditioned programs are artistically selective, although some draw from a more regional pool), programs that may be artistically selective (A.K.A pretty much all auditioned programs) but less academically selective, or all of the above?

I would say Otterbein, Wright state, Baldwin Wallace and Kent state in Ohio are less academically selective

Academically speaking: Western KY, Northern KY, Coastal Carolina, Otterbein, Wright State, western Carolina, UArts, Pace, Point Park, Rider, Boston Conservatory and even Carnegie Mellon will take you with poor grades if they want you.

CCPA at Roosevelt is less academically selective as well.

Thanks I just wanted some sort of idea. Mostly wanting to know less selective academically cause I know most are selective artistically if they audition. My D is no sloucher grade wise now but she’s just a rising junior and I’m sure her GPA will be ok by application time but it might be more of the 3.4 or 3.5 range not 4.0! Now I think it’s 3.8. Next year she has so many tough classes though! Plus PSAT she did well but not great on math!!

WOW - RELAX!!! Your daughter will be academically fine for most BFA programs. Syracuse, Ithaca, NYU (from my experience), CCCM, Marymount Manhattan, UMichigan, Pace (as mentioned before). Also, don’t worry about her math scores as lower math scores is fairly typical for MT kids.

Your daughter has just completed sophomore year, you have no idea what the next two years will bring, good and not so good. Let her be a student in every aspect of the word, academically and artistically, she’ll be fine.

Thank goodness about the math! Lol @amtc !
I know I am starting early looking @ schools but MT is so crazy I figured at least if we have a list , albeit changing , them we have a starting point. Seems like all her friends have crazy GPAS so she is intimidated. She will have less competition for programs in some aspects since she will only apply to one or two reach schools. No CMU or u of Michigan etc. plus a lot of those we are priced out of.

Most schools post their Common Data Set information, which will show the breakdown of GPA’s and test scores in detail for entering Freshman. Just Google “ Common Data Set” or look up the school on collegedata.com (which posts Common Data Set info for all schools).

I second what @amtc said. A GPA of 3.4 coupled with good (but not outstanding) test scores will likely earn Merit Scholarship money at many schools posted at the top of this forum. Don’t let all the hype about GPA’s and test scores bother you - the “Paper Chase” of 4.0+ GPA’s, 2400 SAT’s, and saving orphans in Africa are centered on a couple dozen National Universities and another couple dozen Liberal Arts colleges, almost none of which have MT programs of note. I actually plotted entrance requirement data from the Common Data Set and it declines exponentially from the very tippy top programs into much more reasonable numbers for GPA’s and test scores.

Test scores seem to carry a lot of weight, especially as you move outside the few dozen very highly selective academic programs - if you look Google "Merit Aid’ for schools that you are interested in you will see the criteria. Make sure your student takes both the SAT and ACT, my D’s ACT scores were considerably higher than her SAT and earned her a lot of Merit Money (she only took each test once).

Yes will remember to have her take both. Seems like kids here only take SAT & in the state next to us they only take ACT. Weird. I know this is a ridiculous question but has anyone ever heard of a MT student, like on this forum etc, getting a full ride anywhere? A friend told me her niece did in a program for MT and I figured she was exaggerating . I’ve never heard of that happening anywhere…lots of merit and talent aid but not a full ride!

I have not heard of a student getting a full ride for MT. I have heard of students getting a full ride because of their academics or perhaps get a full ride by combining academic and talent awards. But it would be rare that they were given a full ride on talent alone. There are some states that do offer full rides at state schools for students who participated in their Governors School for the Arts program. So I guess it is possible your friend could have a niece who earned a full ride that way. I know in Kentucky there are a number of kids who choose state schools for that reason. But even then, it doesn’t always cover the complete cost of attendance.

MT programs generally don’t have a huge pool of talent money to give – so they usually can only give partial scholarships for talent. If you are a good student and they can help you get some academic money as well, they will do their best. There are some schools that actually post what academic money you will receive based on your grades and test scores alone. But make sure you understand if you can stack academic and talent awards. Some schools allow it. Some schools, like Coastal Carolina, make you choose one or the other. It gets complicated for sure!

S has full ride at Wright State for National Merit. Decent grades - 3.5ish unweighted. Plus small talent scholarship (b/c he’s a boy who can dance???). Terrific MT/Acting BFA programs. Also a Theater Arts BA - those students can audition for all shows. And I believe they can audition one time after freshman year to enter MT - don’t quote me on that.

Is the National Merit thing what you get when you are a junior? I dont really know about that program…I have heard of it though this year but I think only one child at my D’s school qualified for it as a jr? Maybe that was something else…Wright State is SO on the list of schools my D will apply. I hear nothing but good things about it

Yes - you take a test called the PSAT/NMQT Junior year. There will be semi finalists and finalists recognized based on how they score on this test. Many schools offer scholarships as a result.

Lots of schools do PSAT sophomore year

most sophomores take the PSAT as practice, but it is your junior year score which qualifies you for national merit I believe.

PSAT taken October of Junior year is the one that counts. Notification of “commended” and “semi-finalist” standing comes in fall of senior year, but you can go on website to see “cut-off” scores from previous years. Scores vary slightly year-to-year and quite significantly state-to-state. “Finalist” notification comes in January (?) of senior year - not sure of timeline for “achievement” notification. Schools that are “less selective” academically are often very generous to all levels of National Merit - Wright State is. If sophomore score is within spitting distance of award scores from previous years in your state, it may be well worth it to shoehorn in private PSAT tutoring in summer after sophomore year.

Let me try and help out here as my wife is a high school college counselor. The National Merit is I believe based on your PSAT score, which is taken spohmore year. Not your SAT or your ACT. As for taking the SAT and/or ACT, my wife always advises students to take both and to take them a couple times each. The ACT is weighted more towards math and science. With the SAT they will take the best of your different sections if you take it more than once and then use the combined scores to report to colleges. There are also subtelties with regard to each test (I believe the SAT you get marked off a bit for wrong answers, and the ACT you don’t, so it makes sense to guess on the ACT if you don’t know an answer and not for the SAT). Most students do better on one standadized test than another. As an example my D got a 32 on the ACT but did not do as well on the SAT because she was stronger in math.

As to how much this matters to a kid applying to BFA MT programs, the simple answer to that is yes. Why? $$$$$$. If you are looking to get substantial financial aid from schools, then the way you will get that is through academics, not as much artistics (and this will of course vary somewhat from school to school). Good standardized test scores and good grades will put you in line for academic scholarships at most any university one applies to. So advice to anyone applying: study up on how to take the SAT and ACT, and do well on them if you want $$$$.

Now onto grades. Are grades important for a BFA MT applicant? Yes. Because of money, and because if you are applying to a university you have to meet the minimum academic standards set by the university for general student admissions. I have told this story more than once on this board: my D went to HS with two kids that would have been accepted to the BFA program she now attends if it had not been for grades. Both kids were offered a spot based on their audition but did not meet the criteria for acceptance to the university. Thus, they are not in the program. So grades matter. There are stories out there about how, if you are a MT student those can be lowered, but only to a limited extent. You have to pay attention to your grades. And the other thing to emphasize is how colleges look at grades. Many colleges when looking at your GPA do not look at how you did in music theory, etc. They look at core classes (math science, etc), and calculate your GPA based on core classes. So you have to do well enough in core classes to gain admission to the university. Every university you apply to should either have information on their website, or you should be able to get it from the university if you call, about their general admission crieteria.

And of course, you should be communicating with the college counselor and/or guidance counselor at your high school to be sure you’re up on these selection criteria for any college you apply to. Some high schools do this better than others. If your HS does not do well, it may be worth the investment in a private college counselor to help guide you.