"Academically so strong that their admission is without doubt"

Applying to College
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<p>Heavens, my kids were inundated with snail mail and emails from colleges. Over 100 lbs. and 1,000 emails each. Both heard from every single Ivy. They buy names and addresses from CB and the ACT folks, based on bands of scores, AP awards, etc. Some schools will send out letters to students who perform well in certain competitions. </p>

<p>One of my kids got a personal letter from the dean of admissions at a top school which was actively trying to lure exceptional candidates from its major competitors. Flattering, yes – but that didn’t stop the school from waitlisting my S!</p>

<p>My brother and SIL swear Harvard is recruiting my niece. Um, no. She’s on their mailing list because she’s been to the Harvard Invitational debate tournament every year since 9th grade.</p>

<p>LorenIpsum, our flagship gives generous merit $$ to top students, and a lot of them come in with enough credits to be juniors (or nearly so). The vast majority stay all four years and complete double majors and/or significant graduate work. That extra year or two beyond what’s required for the degree gives them the chance to truly shine at a very large school and gets them into great grad schools.</p>

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<p>Their debate tournament doesn’t necessarily get you on their mailing list. I’ve also been most years of hs and don’t get mail from H.</p>

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<p>The dads are diluting the topic with their superfluous debates. Come on, take it outside please</p>

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<p>Mr. Meursault–I guess you missed the part where I mentioned that DH is Harvard alumnus. :wink: (I am, too, for that matter, but I attended the Div School, which admits anyone who can spell his/her name correctly.)</p>

<p>Sheesh, ISTM there are a whole lotta insecure people around here, getting their jollies out of bragging about their own progeny and tearing down everyone else’s.</p>

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<p>LoremIpsum – we had a similar experience after our older son received his National Merit Semifinalist notification. Many, many colleges came out of the woodwork–and most specifically mentioned his Nat’l Merit scores and status. Several also specifically mentioned their merit scholarships, waived their application fees, and even intimated that the scholarship was in the bag. But, of course, that’s all just spam. ;-)</p>

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<p>Fast track applications! ACK! I saw an article recently. They are not spam, but close. They are there to really boost up their applicant pool. Schools that offer them have very low admittance rates. I assume you are not getting them from the top schools.</p>

<p>I think my daughter has had at least 6 schools offering them so far, and she even applied to one, since it will make a good safety for her. They said they give it priority attention. What they did not tell us was that they started looking at them one month after that point. It was hurry, hurry, get these papers in. It has been 7 weeks. They have EA that takes the traditional 6 weeks. Rolling admissions usually takes 2-3 weeks. </p>

<p>This was not the article I saw before, but it does sum it up
[Fast</a> track application give colleges the upperhand | Saratoga Falcon](<a href=“http://www.saratogafalcon.org/content/fast-track-application-give-colleges-upperhand]Fast”>Fast track application give colleges the upperhand – Saratoga Falcon)</p>

<p>“So as students get e-mails every day from colleges with fast track applications, they should see that colleges are not always trying to be kind and considerate to students by making the application process easier. Colleges are using them to lower their acceptance rate and trying to make themselves seem more prestigious. These applications also leave colleges judging students by looking at numbers and not by their accomplishments and personality”</p>

<p>and</p>

<p>“They may send out hundreds and thousands of emails while only accepting less than a thousand students. This creates a decreased percent-acceptance rate, making the college seem more prestigious.”</p>

<p>I know it is flattering to think ones child is being recruited, but I have known some of the super stars. These are the kids that do easily get into multiple top 10 schools. They are getting the same email and snail mail that other good, though not great students are receiving.</p>

<p>When my son was applying, he only had one college sending him snail mail that clearly showed that they knew why he was a top student. I dont know if they got his name from his top scores from the AMC, AIME or USAMO. If it was the latter, then they truly were recruiting him. Oddly, it was a mediocre state college (in a state that has a better known university)</p>

<p>So, unless your child is a star athlete (grrr…) consider any attempt to ‘recruit’ him/her, with a grain of salt!</p>

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Didn’t miss it, how does that change anything?</p>

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<p>MrMrsault–ever hear of legacies? ;-)</p>

<p>anotherparent–but we <em>are</em> getting these solicitations from top colleges; that was just my point. We’re also getting them from places we’ve never heard of, which corresponds to what you’re talking about. But, probably because of the National Merit Thang, we are also getting persistent solicitations from top schools. (And, to tell the truth, we are learning about <em>other</em> (less name-brand) schools that have more to offer than we imagined. That is how we learned about UNC Asheville, which is now one of our son’s top choices.)</p>

<p>What on earth does it matter? My son is basically limiting his search to solid Catholic colleges and affordable (but academically strong) NC state colleges, so the whole thing is academic (no pun intended). As Harvard alumni, DH and I are not particularly bedazzled by the Ivies; we’re too cynical, having been-there-done-that. We want what’s best for our son – academically, spiritually, emotionally. We want what he wants. We want a school where he will be happy and fulfilled. Isn’t that, finally, what it’s all about? ;-)</p>

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<p>In above post, meant to do a bracket inside the parens, like so:</p>

<p>“And, to tell the truth, we are learning about <em>other</em> [less name-brand] schools that have more to offer than we imagined. That is how we learned about UNC Asheville, which is now one of our son’s top choices.)”</p>

<p>;-)</p>

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<p>I’m sure the mass-mailings entice a large number of not-yet-cynical parents. When my older son, some years ago, got an invite to attend a Harvard-Duke-Georgetown presentation, we were proud parents… until we arrived on the scene and saw that the presentation hall held 2000 people!</p>

<p>On the other hand, there’s the Real Deal, too. Amherst was nice enough to buy my younger son a plane ticket to come visit them. Now THAT is the sort of solicitation I can still take seriously!</p>

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<p>Legacy doesn’t always help as much as one would think, especially at highly selective schools. Coupling legacy and ED can be very powerful, though that’s not an option for Harvard. Otherwise, there simply aren’t enough seats to admit every qualified legacy. </p>

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<p>LadyDianeaski, the reason it “matters” that we discuss this is for all of the parents and students reading this thread who are new to the game. They’re receiving those snail and emails and thinking it means that these schools want them, that they’re being “recruited”, and that they are surely going to be admitted. Parents whose children have already gone through the admissions process–in some cases, whose children are finished with undergrad–mention their children’s test scores and academic records to illustrate just how tough it is to get into these schools. It’s highly educational (and a tad depressing) to read through the acceptance threads from previous years and see just how many exceptional students are turned down by highly selective schools. </p>

<p>LoremIpsum, I agree that proffering a free plane ticket is one example of the real deal :)</p>

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<p>I know last year that was a thread about someone’s son who did get an airline ticket and then got turned down. The family was pretty stunned and upset. I think they did not work on some other avenues, because they assumed he was in. I also read of a girl who was short listed for an excellent scholarship at Scripps College. They fly everyone to the school for the weekend, and then decide who gets the scholarships. This girl got turned down for admissions. She was also stunned.</p>

<p>I think in both cases, the kids must have made a pretty poor impression in person. </p>

<p>But, the moral is important. Until you get an actual acceptance you assume that a school is interested in your child. </p>

<p>For people who are getting mailings because of NMSF, just remember they are the best of the best, and 16K other kids are also the best of the best :-)</p>

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<p>Interesting comment. I suppose it depends on what “one would think”. If you think it guarantees admission, correct. If you think it does not matter much at all, wrong.</p>

<p>In fact, most serious studies of the topic have shown that legacy admit rates are 2X or more than RD. </p>

<p>Although the universities studied, especially HYPS++ places claim, to quote Harvard “gentle thumb on the scale”, or claim that the legacy applicants are somehow better qualified, well controlled scientific studies have found that legacies are admitted at rates not justified by their qualifications. In other words, similarly qualified students that are not legacies (or URM, athletes etc) are admitted at much lower rates. </p>

<p>This has been well dissected in other threads on these boards, in case anyone is wondering.</p>

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<p>interesteddad, I see a lot of people who assume that legacy means an automatic acceptance, not just a gentle thumb on the scale, or even a heavy enough thumb to double the odds. I was just talking to a long-time friend who attended Stanford. He just joined the alumni association, because his niece may be applying to Stanford, and he wanted to give her a potential boost. Now, I went to Cal so I’m happy to think that this is just another example of Stanford cluelessness :wink: :wink: but I think it’s a pretty typical attitude for people who were alums at lottery schools and who haven’t kept up with the admissions game.</p>

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<p>Well, I’ll admit I only read 4 out of the however many pages in this thread, but I saw a lot of stuff about how it doesn’t mean anything to be a HS superstar.</p>

<p>This is totally not true.</p>

<p>A person who has a 4.0 GPA, 2400 SAT, 5s on multiple SAT IIs/AP Exams etc. has SOME level of natural intelligence that certainly means more than “can take a test.” The people I know at my good public school who are achieving such feats are incredibly intelligent people with a knack for numbers and words that you don’t see in the everyday population. This is an asset and a skill and a strength that they possess, to some extent uniquely, and nothing can take that away from them. </p>

<p>Does this mean they will all go on to be rich and famous? No. Do some “average” people become rich and famous, do some stupid people become rich and famous? Yes. Are other qualities besides intelligence important, such as ability to interact/connect with people, humor, ambition, an outgoing nature, compassion, athleticism? Yes. </p>

<p>Does this mean it therefore means nothing to be a high school superstar? No. Simply because other things start to come into play the further down in life you get doesn’t negate any strengths that appeared earlier in one’s life. These kids are smart, and whether or not they choose to be a CEO or junior consultant doesn’t make their life more meaningless or the fact that they are intelligent less important and fulfilling. It’s all about what makes you happy and what gives you a feeling of worth. Some people do not want to be PhDs or actresses or CEOs. There’s nothing wrong with that. Those people are not the only people in this world that matter :p</p>

<p>I am sure that junior consultant will help his company a lot, make his clients happy, and possibly go on to use his intelligence to do good things in the community, on boards, or later on in career. The fact that he is not a Rhodes Scholar doesn’t mean the intelligence that got him a 2400 on the SAT and into Harvard isn’t still a tool that he can use to help himself or other people down the line in some fashion.</p>

<p>Thinking that how much money you make or your position in a company or movies you starred in or degrees or scholarships that you receive somehow mean “more” and are less superficial than test scores or college admissions is ironically ignorant imho. All of these are superficial measures of worth and intelligence and success. What matters is your worth to yourself, and to those people who you have forged close connections with.</p>

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<p>It would not surprise me if overconfidence results in the downfall of many exceptional students, including 2400 SAT/rank-1 candidates who have been assured by everyone they know that they are a lock at any school they choose. When this overconfidence leads to essays thrown together at the last minute or letters of recommendation requested just before the deadline, it’s bound to affect the student’s overall application package.</p>

<p>I would think that receiving a paid ticket to visit a top college and then not following it up with an enthusiastic full-effort application could be the kiss of death for many applicants. Certainly, some students probably did make a “bad impression” while on campus – getting drunk at a party or getting into loud arguments or making racist comments would probably get you remembered for all the wrong reasons. Sitting off in a corner by yourself most of the weekend probably wouldn’t help, either.</p>

<p>In the case of my son’s Amherst visit, when he received his invite, he was also told that, historically, 75% of previous invitees were granted admission. That’s a huge boost from Amherst’s usual 15% acceptance rate, but it’s still far from a guarantee. Out of the 80 visitors that weekend, about 20 won’t get the nod – I can’t imagine all 20 actually made noteworthy bad impressions. Probably a few made great impressions and will be especially remembered, a few made unfavorable impressions, and the rest made average impressions and their essays and letters of recommendation will be deciding factors at admission-decision time.</p>

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<p>So everyone is talking about being amazing in maths and sciences…</p>

<p>What if someone wasn’t the best at it, but was great at perhaps the arts or sports? Would that lower their chances compared to those of a mathlete’s?</p>

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<p>Not at all, Tskirin. Sometimes it is easier to see in kids who are really great at math or science, because of the olympiads, but kids who are great at anything find it easier to get into colleges. They love to see passion and accomplishments.</p>

<p>And, great athletes have the easiest time of all, as far as I can tell.</p>

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<p>Yay jason’s back! How’s that anal fissure?</p>

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<p>For the record, I have never assumed that legacy translates into automatic acceptance. Nor have I even remotely intimated this. Please don’t assume. :slight_smile: Forgive me, but I feel as if perfect strangers on this board think they can read my mind. I’m not <em>assuming</em> anything. I am not assuming that being hounded by Washington and Lee to apply for the Johnson Scholarship–and then being hounded to complete the application–means my son has an automatic shot. But I <em>am</em> assuming that they must have <em>some</em> interest in him, because they sure in heck have been persistent. That’s my very modest assumption. So, sue me! ;-)</p>

<p>Son is not even applying to Harvard, so the fact that he’s a legacy is irrelevant. If he were to apply, though, I assume his legacy status would carry <em>some</em> weight, however slight. DH graduated from a very rigorous Harvard PhD program – primary field in Byzantine history, which has a killer language requirement – so I would think that would carry just a wee bit of influence.</p>