Academics?

<p>So, yesterday I visited Conn on their junior visiting day. I loved the friendly atmosphere, the arboretum, and the view of the ocean. However, the students I met seemed preppy and ditzy. I want an academic atmosphere in college... and I want to be challenged. After taking nine history courses in high school, I would like to skip intro history, but according to their policy, I can't. After speaking with the students, I am concerned about whether Conn is just a rich kids' school - like for kids who couldn't get into harder schools. I loved the welcoming atmosphere, but the college didn't present itself as academically rigorous. That is important to me.
Also - is Conn a match for me? I have 2230 SAT, 4.0 UW GPA, 4.41 W GPA, third in class, president of two club, VP another, 200 + community service hours at historical society... a few minor awards. Don't know if this makes a difference, but I am from Ohio...</p>

<p>Conn would easily be a match. We haven’t yet visited the school in session, but your impression was something I was wondering about as well. For my S, the quality of intellectual discourse both in and out of the classroom is of paramount concern. Conn’s list of clubs also seems pretty inadequate in this regard and I was wondering about this. Is there debate and / or MUN? I saw Mock Trial, but no link with it. </p>

<p>Are students interested in news, world affairs, social service and political activism? I know Conn has the Knowlton House, which would be of interest for my S, but to depend on this for his entire social / EC life seems too narrow.</p>

<p>I guess that I am not alone in my concerns. I asked about MUN, since I am in MUN now, and the admissions officer was unaware of a group. </p>

<p>For one of my college essays (we have to write them in junior english) I wrote about how in college, I imagine myself walking across a wintry quad, debating about a certain topic in history with my friends and discussing our favorite books. I have lacked intellectual discussions in high school (with my peers) and that is what I want in college. Yet… when I visited… no one was studying. Granted, it was a friday, but when I visited Brown today, around 75% of the students I saw were reading and it is Spring Break.</p>

<p>The reason everyone was on the green and not studying could be because in the past week New London has received torrential rain (and compared to other CT areas, they got off easy) and the students wanted to finally enjoy some good weather on a Friday. My guess is that Conn students, like other college students, may not transition from classes directly to studying on a beautiful Friday.</p>

<p>I visited on Spring Visit Day, too. I didn’t look as closely at the green as you did, but I did see students reading and studying in Harris dining hall.</p>

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<p>Did you look at the list on the website? It says there that those are “the most recent examples”, which leads me to believe that this isn’t close to a full list.</p>

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<p>Well…not true, exactly. There’s no one intro history at Conn. There’s a world hist course you could probably AP credit out of, and a US hist course you could AP out of, but majors need to meet a distribution requirement:</p>

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<p>With APUSH/AP Euro, you should get at least two done (along with a credit towards the major in HIST for AP World), but let’s be honest, HS courses aren’t of the caliber of most colleges to begin with. You’ll be taking “survey” courses that will go more into depth with one particular area- Intro to India, or Europe (unless you took the AP class and scored well), or Latin America, or Africa. </p>

<p>So, I visited in November, and it was a weekend. My host fell asleep studying- totally different impression I got in terms of “rigor”, since she spent a lot of time studying with friends, in between showing me around- I applied to Conn because it was a smart school (It’s not by any means, an ‘easy’ school, as the students and alum I talked to have said. You shouldn’t be unchallenged.), and this round, I know a lot of not rich kids (including myself) who got in. Are there a ton of rich kids? Well, it’s a private LAC, so yes. [The library is also pretty interesting- the higher up you go, the more intense the studying is] and on a friday, you probably didn’t see many science students, who are taking their labs. </p>

<p>…Having been to another school that saw my senior english projects, and proclaimed them “hard”, I’ve got a big ditz detector. But when other visiting students needed to work on their AP Bio at Conn, their hosts helped them out with it, and let them study. </p>

<p>As for international stuff- Knowlton has a lot going on within it, but CISLA might be a great addition to the international interests. [Connecticut</a> College : CISLA Home](<a href=“http://cisla.conncoll.edu/]Connecticut”>http://cisla.conncoll.edu/) </p>

<p>So might some of these: [Connecticut</a> College : Campus Life - Issue Oriented](<a href=“http://www.conncoll.edu/campuslife/1652.htm]Connecticut”>http://www.conncoll.edu/campuslife/1652.htm)</p>

<p>[Connecticut</a> College : Campus Life - Special Interest](<a href=“http://www.conncoll.edu/campuslife/1658.htm]Connecticut”>http://www.conncoll.edu/campuslife/1658.htm) Mock trial And maybe a political club. </p>

<p>Nothing stopping your kid from starting a new club, either, if he really wants MUN- but there are plenty of activities that aren’t clubs, especially that revolve around Knowlton, CISLA, and the IR department. </p>

<p>But I’m going to guess it’s because it was sunny for once, not that everyone’s a ditz. </p>

<p>And the intro history classes look really cool, actually…I already did AP world, but the textbook for “Big History” looked fascinating- saw it during a study sesh in a study room in one of the dorms. /$.02</p>

<p>IMO, I"m glad that nobody was studying on a beautiful Friday afternoon! I think the best type of environment is one where the students are intellectually engaged both in and out of the classroom, but also do stuff for fun and don’t spend all their time with a nose in the book. I would be afraid to send my kids to a school where it didn’t look like anyone knew how to enjoy life!</p>

<p>^ I live in a place where studying/lazing about outside on a friday might be crazy. (It can get insanely hot) so I’m looking forward to it, haha.</p>

<p>In my opinion there is a combination of students at Conn. You will find a large percentage who fit the description of what the type of peers you are seeking but you will also find a solid number of students who fit that “ditzy” demographic to which you were referring. The issue isn’t the quality of the academics–I think any student can find themselves challenged, the faculty is tremendous, and the college hosts quality academic events. The reason there is a ditzy population on campus is because of competition. While Conn can fill much of their incoming class with intellectual students, it cannot fill the entire class with such students. The number of ideal students is what truly separates schools like Conn, Bates, and Trinity from school like Middlebury, Bowdoin, and Williams. There is too much competition to fill the whole class. You may want to check out schools where the number one pitch is intellectualism. Tour Bard College.</p>

<p>A problem is that if one don’t want to be challenged at Conn, than they will not have to be because the core requirements are broad and the college offers large number of “puff” courses. That being said, if you want to challenge yourself, and many students do, there are many rigorous and challenging courses. While it is a hackneyed expression, it is true that at Conn your truly “get out what you put in”.</p>

<p>Lastly, as a history major, I can tell you that the depth and expectations of college history class dwarf that of a challenging high school history course. The college wants to ensure that you have the proper foundation since they cannot know be certain from your high school history curriculum.</p>

<p>“I loved the welcoming atmosphere, but the college didn’t present itself as academically rigorous. That is important to me.”</p>

<p>You’re right. The college does a terrible job of marketing its rigor. Conn seems much more concerned with drawing MORE applicants rather than BETTER applicants and therefore puts students life and “warmth” above rigor in their presentations.</p>

<p>I am very surprised by your take on this…</p>

<p>Have you seen the admissions statistics? My son did not apply at any of the Ivies because to be honest, he really didn’t care to go to an Ivy and didn’t want to go through the hoops of what it takes to get into an Ivy, but if you compare admission statistics, Conn College isn’t far behind (if behind at all) the admission statistics at some of the Ivies.</p>

<p>They obviously are getting a very high level of applicants. Now… The real question is what will the actual class look like after 1200 of the kids applied deny their admission to go to another school.</p>

<p>My main concern at whatever college my S ends up, is not the academic rigor per se, but the level of student engagement in discussion both in and out of the classroom. He hasn’t attended a class yet at Conn College, but even attending one class anywhere can be deceptive. </p>

<p>CamelMan, I’ve been very impressed and appreciative of your posts here. What’s your take on this question for Conn? </p>

<p>btw, your assessment of the college admissions process was spot on, and in fact, Bard is one of the schools my S is considering. Also, someone in the admissions office is listening to you, because Open House for accepted students is “designed to help students learn about the intellectual climate, philosophy and community at the college.”</p>

<p>I know the OP is asking a serious question. I hear the concern. However, I have to say the OP is coming off a bit pompous although I assume this wasn’t the intention. I am a parent of a child who was recently admitted to Conn as well as several other schools. He’ll be visiting to check it out. I graduated from Princeton and I can tell you that if you had traipsed across our campus at any given time, you would run into ditzes, super nerds and the vast majority of us who were somewhere in the middle. Sometimes we debated “heavy” subjects (or, in our youthful folly, THOUGHT we were debating something heavy). Often, kids were engaged in completely worthless discussions because college was also about having fun. Some of the biggest “ditzes” turned out to be academically curious and motivated to take advantage of what the school had to offer. Others took themselves far too seriously and would have done well to loosen up and dive into a little bit of what Princeton had to offer outside of academics.I didn’t recommend to my son to apply to Princeton. I knew it wouldn’t be a good fit for him. But I also didn’t encourage him to apply to Conn because we thought it was lacking in academic rigor and he wouldn’t be challenged. OP, just remember that an awful lot of the kids who don’t get into an Ivies would have still been able to cut it if they had been admitted. It’s not difficult to graduate from any of these top tier schools. The difficulty comes in winning the numbers game and being admitted. You’re going to find all types no matter where you go.</p>

<p>Camel, in regard to your comment: “The number of ideal students is what truly separates schools like Conn, Bates and Trinity from schools like Middlebury, Bowdoin and Williams.” Would you be so kind as to elaborate as I’m not too sure what you mean by that? My D was accepted to Conn and Skidmore, waitlisted at Bowdoin and Hamilton. While my daughter thrives on a social life and having “chill” time (to swipe a phrase from your generation) she is most concerned with the the intellectual life as far as the quality of academics. She needs both. Thanks.</p>

<p>This is lengthy and tonight is not a good night for me to come back to the board and edit it. I hope it is cohesive. I will check this board again tomorrow.</p>

<p>“Would you be so kind as to elaborate as I’m not too sure what you mean by that?”</p>

<p>What I mean is that the admissions process seems mildly self-perpetuating. Students look at so many liberal arts colleges and they begin blurring together and decisions come down to things like rankings and statistics. For this reason alone higher ranked schools can attract more high quality students. Conn may have a solid core of students who were serious ivy league candidates and ended up at Conn, or who were genuinely attracted to Conn over many other colleges. At the end of the day, however, a large number of prospective students who may really like colleges like Conn and Skidmore have a difficult time justifying attending the 42nd ranked school over the 8th ranked school, regardless of how arbitrary the rankings sometimes are. The end result, in my opinion, is Conn can’t fill their entire class with hyper-intellectual students and at most of the NESCAC colleges outside of the top 15, there is going to be a certain percentage of the student body who are B students from prestigious high schools who are generally unengaged. </p>

<p>That being said, while that particular group of less academically engaged students persists, I can’t think of any students who are generally unengaged–meaning, in a class of 20 students, the 5 students who seemingly have no reason to be in class usually have something else going on: athletics, community service, the outdoors, etc. </p>

<p>In response to ting na: “But I also didn’t encourage him to apply to Conn because we thought it was lacking in academic rigor and he wouldn’t be challenged.”
If your son liked Conn, than it is a shame that you miscalculated the college. There is a challenging curriculum available, there IS a strong intellectual life, and students regularly attend great grad schools. My point was not that the college lacked rigor. I was, instead, pointing out the reason why you may have had ditsy run-ins and further that it is nearly impossible to avoid such run-ins at most colleges, unless you look at a school with no tolerance for that mentality–somewhere like Bard. That being said, at somewhere like Bard, you will “miss out” on the students who are unlike yourself but who add to the flavor of the college such as a strong athletic community, and greater archetypal diversity.</p>

<p>Places like Conn and Skidmore don’t beat you over the head with their intellectual climate. Don’t take that to mean that a strong intellectual community does not exist.</p>

<p>Upon a second look I suppose there is one more comment I could address: "but the level of student engagement in discussion both in and out of the classroom. He hasn’t attended a class yet at Conn College, but even attending one class anywhere can be deceptive. "</p>

<p>With well attended lectures, a number of student political groups, a very large community of environmentalists, and simply the general student engagement typical at a small college lead to a strong intellectual life outside of the classroom. There are not many students with dreadlocks sitting under trees engrossed in arguments about Plato, but most students are aware of what’s going on in the world, and there is a particularly significant interest in the arts. There are many of New York City students who typify the hip city kid culture at the college, and the off-beat student body tends to lean more toward city culture than hippy culture. This culture is counter-balanced by your typical New Englandy, preppier culture which explains the two drastically different experiences one can have one trying to acquaint themselves with Conn College.</p>

<p>CamelMan, very thoughtful replies! Thank you. BTW, I don’t think that the top tier schools in terms of selectivity are filled with “hyper-intellectual” students either. Plenty of admits for a variety of reasons other than purely intellect…</p>

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<p>You can be a “ditz” and still be intelligent. Or perhaps, you can be unwise, and still be smart. My dad had a genius roommate who couldn’t figure out how to make Kraft Macaroni & Cheese, but he was still brilliant. ;)</p>

<p>For that matter unacademic =/= stupid. Not everyone is a PhD in the making, but that doesn’t make them dumb. So what sort of intelligence is the OP looking for? </p>

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<p>The opposite end of the spectrum is U of Chicago- which markets its academics but is often derided as “cold” by those who visit. </p>

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<p>Well, I can tell you Japanese 101 is very engaging. Haha. I’ll be going again this weekend, and hopefully sitting in on other classes- I don’t think a good class is necessarily decieving, but a poor class might be. Tell your son to watch student reactions- at Scripps, often no one answered a question, until <em>I</em> raised my hand. IT was if they didn’t <em>want</em> to answer, and were very reluctant, despite the professor being great. You have to judge if that response is it being early in the morning, nerves, or being bored by the class.</p>

<p>Camel, you’re really good at this! I feel completely confident now with my daughter’s options – Skidmore or Conn. Anyway, although she thrives on intellectual discussions and academic rigor (provided she enjoys the topic), she also loves being with many of her friends who are not intellectual, I’d say some may even be the “d” word (ditzy), but she also gains so much from them and I wouldn’t want her to be in an environment where EVERYONE was an intellectual or had a type A academic personality. I just wanted to make sure that the thoughtful, thinking, academic type was abundant at these particular schools and not just the minority. Once again, thank you, sir :)</p>

<p>I think most students at Conn take their academics quite seriously; of course there are students who skip classes and forget that they are at college to receive an education but you’ll find those people everywhere, including the top ranked schools.</p>

<p>I CAN say as a recent alum, that based on my peers who are currently at/graduated from some fabulous grad programs, that a Conn education is nothing to sneer at, and it will well prepare those who wish to pursue further education, another marker of the intellectual climate, which I agree is undermarketed.</p>

<p>I was with my daughter at Conn on the same Friday, and she/I had a totally different take. She fell in love with the school for many reasons, but top among them was that the students we heard from were so involved and engaged; because breadth of study, interdisciplinary work and double-majoring were so encouraged; because the students in general seemed neither too preppy, too shallow, nor too self-consciously artsy; and because everyone looked so dang happy. It helped that it was a glorious spring day, of course. And I would NEVER want her at a place where kids couldn’t go out on a gorgeous spring-is-here Friday afternoon to play frisbee and have some fun!</p>

<p>It seemed like a very “smart” school. And sheesh, the latest entrance stats are daunting indeed. We were at Vassar today (also a fantastic school, but she liked Conn better), and their stats seem pretty much the same… now she’s worried about getting into Conn.</p>