<p>Surely LFWB Dad was being facetious. He was joking, correct?</p>
<p>In regards to the comments about Communion, the Protestant Chaplain who just left on 1 July has served Open Communion every Sunday for the 2 1/2 years that he's been at KP. Anyone who claims they didn't "fit in" b/c there was no Communion obviously has not attended the Protestant Service for the past 2 1/2 years. The service attempted to include facets of both traditional liturgical and contemporary evangelical services, and all teaching was directly from the Bible, not any particular denominational doctrine. Students were regularly invited to participate in the service and were asked for their input. Both the Protestant Chaplain and the Catholic Chaplain saw it as their duty, as they would in any military setting, to meet the spiritual needs and ensure the constitutional rights of all midshipmen to worship. Understandably, a student who is used to a particular style of worship may choose to go off-campus to find a church that more closely resembles his or her home church. But if students do not want to go off-campus, there certainly has been a place for all students to worship God at the Chapel at KP.</p>
<p>KPMOM has done her research and is right on the money about the Chapel situation at KP. I hope a solution can be found that is beneficial to the students and to the Academy.</p>
<p>There have been a lot of things hashed around, but one area has been left void.</p>
<pre><code> WHAT MAKES A GOOD CHAPLAIN?
</code></pre>
<p>What kind of person will have the most affect on the students? Some chaplains don't get to first base on influencing the students, they are distant, and non-caring. Often the only thing judged is if a chaplain can preach a sermon that has enough illustrations to keep the students awake.</p>
<p>So what traits and personality characteristics do the students want in their next chaplain? What kind of person would they respect, look up to, and be influenced by?</p>
<p>Keep the students awake? I just giggled as I remembered the story son told of going to services while during Indoc where 99% of the kids dozed off, him included. He said he just couldn't help it. "It was the air-conditioning". LOL</p>
<p>I would love to hear more about the KP guy & his involvement. With him having the full experience of what KP kids go through, he has to be a real asset. Any chance that he might receive a more official position in the future?</p>
<p>It was a joke about the wrestling room. Just trying to lighten things up. </p>
<p>Sorry, but I guess the omniscient one has decided what's best for the board, and if its different from her position, we should just go away. </p>
<p>Thanks kp2001.</p>
<p>Again, I believe, and have always said, KP needs Chaplains. </p>
<p>However, I am concerned that the PERFECT will become the enemy of the GOOD, and we'll get nowhere. </p>
<p>Just because I said what my preference would be, doesn't mean that's what it has to be. KPMOM is right about openess.</p>
<p>Additionally, I never brought up communion. But the "bells and smells" are a part of what my kid missed.</p>
<p>Finally, I have two of my AF staff deployed to the AOR doing Army jobs because their aren't enough soldiers. I work everyday with warriors and patriots who have all lost friends and family in the GWOT. As tough as it is at KP for my kid or anyone else's, it pales in comaparison to what these folks are dealing with on a dalily basis. If I am told by the Chaplains here at the Pentagon that they are needed more elsewhere, I believe them.</p>
<p>well said LFWB</p>
<p>very well said, LFWB dad!</p>
<p>I was not offended, in fact I have laughed several times when you said things tongue in cheek. You have a great sense of humor.</p>
<p>As far as communion, I just arranged with a 2011 Mom for her to send communion items for her son, and I will store it in a locked closet. The chapel is there to accommodate, in any way possible, the needs and desires of the students as far as their worship.</p>
<p>I agree with you that there are places that need the chaplains more than Kings Point. I know my son in law is studying to be an army chaplain, and he tells me.</p>
<p>There could be civilian chaplains however, and that would not take away navy chaplains more needed elsewhere. So far, it appears the catholic chaplain will probably stay.</p>
<p>The reason I stopped writing was that it appeared everyone has lost interest, as no one was writing. I asked a question and there was no answer, so I just moved on. I am here for conversation if anyone wants.</p>
<p>Here is the first, and I hear the favored candidate, by the ordained unitarian universalist Deputy Superintendent,who is chosing the protestant chaplain for KP. Go to Roslyn Presbyterian Church, in Roslyn, NY.</p>
<p>Looks Like St. Mark's Episcopal on Capitol Hill. Works for me!</p>
<p>LFWBDad, when are you coming down so I can kill you? Have a rez at 82 Queen Street tomorrow night. You're missing out.</p>
<p>My concern is not on the outside, looking to see what would look good at the chapel. My concern is on the inside, for the students themselves, who know how the chapel program has helped them personally. There is a support system they have found with other students, the encouragement to do well in grades, live up to their God-given abilities , learning to follow God's instructions for their lives. Last year we saw a student with a drinking problem overcome that difficulty, girls who had been used sexually gradually restore their dignity with love, students who were going to have setbacks get the encouragement they needed to push themselves harder and succeed, students out at sea relying on students on campus praying for them. We have seen students not knowing their direction in life get guidance, and find their way. We also saw a bond of friendships form that is making a difference in their time at Kings Point. A number of the very outstanding senior leaders at the academy were actively involved in that program last year.</p>
<p>LFWD, I think you have a sense of humor, although sometimes caustic (calling me omniscient was a little cutting). I think you have a lot of good points, and I personally think everyone should have a freedom to say what they want. But, it has appeared to me all along, that you are on the outside looking in and putting in your two cents. There are some who are on the inside, and see what is really effective and what is really going on and needed, from the students' point of view. I am sorry that your son has not seen that side of the chapel program, he is missing out.</p>
<p>I believe that the one or ones making the decision for the protestant chaplain do not know what's going on from the inside either. They have no idea the inner workings of how it has helped these students at KP. Their criteria appears to be, do this as cheaply as possible, bring in someone part-time for a Sunday service and a few hours extra for counseling and administrative duties. The students will not go to a person who is not there for them. They go to someone who personally cares, and they get to know and trust. They don't go to the professionals at KP because it leaves a paper trail. </p>
<p>The chapel program is relaxed, where the plebes and candidates can talk, smile, and develop friendships, even with upperclassmen. The chapel program includes not just the services, but a student run organization on Monday evenings, Newman club, retreats, TM's to lots of places, barbecues, Sunday afternoon get together for lunch, Bible studies during the week, activities of service to others, apple picking parties, superbowl parties, last year a wilderness canoe trip to northern Canada, and the list goes on and on and on. For many, this is their social life at KP, and it takes the place of the bars, and drinking parties at the nearby park. It also takes the place of some activities in NYC that will not benefit them.</p>
<p>So, things don't have to go my way LFWD, but we are in the trenches with these students, we love them, and are actively involved in their lives. We see it from the inside, from their point of view. So many of them have tried to express this to the administration, but have not gotten through.</p>
<p>I will stick my neck out to say that the unitarian universalist does not believe in Jesus or the Bible. He is very open about this, yet he is making the decision what is best for the protestant students. What was written on the draft position description for the chaplain, is interesting. The chaplain is responsible for fostering the pluralistic religious, the pluralistic spiritual, and the pluralistic moral life of the school. While I agree that a chaplain has the responsibility to help students in all religions and walks in life, and chaplains do that. I wonder how a chaplain fosters pluralism in morals? </p>
<p>Perhaps you weren't so far off LFWD when you said about a "lesbian progressive Episcopal" chaplain, or perhaps, since 90% of the school are males, perhaps a "homosexual progressive chaplain" would fit the bill. Am I not politically correct? I think it's a question to be asked, do we want that for the students, or are there some things that might not be helpful?</p>
<p>Reading your post I feel your are there with the students and are looking out for their well being. As not only a parent but also a citizen that support this academy this brings me personal concern. Please keep us informed with suggestions of what we can do to help. I would also encourage the students to take a stand. </p>
<p>Of course as Christians I think we should all put this on our prayer list.</p>
<p>Well said everyone.</p>
<p>I would encourage you to call Adm. McMahon and talk to him about your concerns. </p>
<p>He is a KP grad a licensed Master, who sailed and taught at KP and left to get his divinity degree, came back to establish GMATS and then left to spend a year as the US Department of Transporation lead in Iraq and then was the DOT lead at Katrina before coming back to be Deputy Sup. </p>
<p>He and Adm. Stewart care deeply about what parents think, so just call him and talk.</p>
<p>I think LFWD's suggestion is excellent! I would add something that I think might be as much or more effective. Go to your senators and congressman, let them know how concerned you are and demand action. Go to the alumni association, who has been silent about this issue and may have the funds to change it, and go to the parents' associations who have not already done something. This will make a difference to your son or daughter's time at KP.</p>
<p>Even if your son or daughter are not religious, and don't want to attend Sunday morning service, someone will be there who they can trust when they have a difficulty.</p>
<p>Is this what the students attending USMMA chapel are looking for?</p>
<p>Atheists (people who do not believe in a god) and Agnostics (people who think that we cannot know whether a god exists) are more than welcome within Unitarian Universalism. Unitarian Universalism is unusual in its belief that a person can be very religious, spiritual, moral, etc. without believing in a god. There is no requirement to believe in a god of any sort within our faith. At last count, 19% of Unitarian Universalists said that they did not believe in any type of god.</p>
<p>Some Unitarian Universalist congregations are more Deistic (god-centered) than others. While some congregations regularly refer to God in worship and prayer, others have a much more varied approach to addressing the religious spirit. Even in those congregations where they often use the word "God," its ok if you dont believe in a god.</p>
<p>Those of us concerned need to step back and realized we have raised our children the best we can. Now it is their time to face obsticles in life. I know my child is well ground and will choose all things he knows to be right and best for him. He is in the school he longed to go to through much prayer. God will not desert him now. </p>
<p>I am now again at peace as I hope you are as well.</p>
<p>i can say that as a Mid, i don't want that. i feel as though that would render the chaplain effectively worthless. if we wanted to talk to someone who didn't believe in anything, all we have to do is walk out of our room and there's a huge group of people that would fit the bill. i, along with many of my shipmates, have discussed this at great length and we feel as though if something of this nature gets established within our chapel program, the chapel program will completely collapse. as KPMOM said, the chapel IS our social life. i can't tell you how many times the chapel kids got together and had BBQs, superbowl parties, TMs to the city, they even took us to see the Rockettes! i'll just say that it makes me happy to see parents backing our cause in one way or another, and that through the pushing of parents and congressmen and soforth that Chaplain Shuley will be staying on board for the time being. that means that our voice is being heard!</p>
<p>I don't think anyone is suggesting that Adm. McMahon should be the Chaplain or that a Unitarian Universalist ought to be the Chaplain. Just because he is an ordained Unitarian, I don't think that should be a huge concern. </p>
<p>He's a mariner and a Kings Pointer first. Adm. McMahon is more concerned about the Academy than proselytizing any belief. I think he will make the best choice among all the not so good options.</p>
<p>But again, call him and talk to him yourself.</p>
<p>You could have fooled the plebes last year, class of 2010. They thought that Chris McMann was the ordained protestant minister on campus, who they could go to for spiritual counseling. They said that he was "Presbyterian or something".</p>
<p>LFWB "Make the best choice" according to whom? Perhaps parents should phone the Deputy Superintendent and ask him what his own life values and beliefs are on a number of areas. No decision is ever made in a vacuum. He will be colored by his life values and beliefs. So, finding out more about him, will show you what kind of chaplain he will hire.</p>
<p>For anyone to take a role of chaplain, minister, priest on a college campus is a high responsibility and calling. Students will look to them for an example in every area of their lives. They have to be true, honest, trustworthy, not hypocritical, high moral and high integrity examples to the students. If anyone causes a student to stumble because of their own personal lives, they will disillusion a student and they will be held accountable to God. College students are very impressionable, are forming their own beliefs, and are figuring out what they stand for. These are important years for them. They need living examples from people who walk the talk.</p>
<p>Is this important to Chris McMann in his decision? Call him and ask him.</p>