<p>well, considering your login name is Ivy_grad, i can understand why you would be defensive of ivies that cannot stand on their own merits. Obviously you feel that whichever ivy you graduated from isnt worth name-dropping without the fact that it is an ivy. </p>
<p>I dont know where exactly this consensus vote you have is coming from, but USNWR ranks northwestern above both cornell and brown, and duke is higher still than many of even the mid-rank ivies.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Lol, I guess you can make the argument of the ACC being the best athletic league when you pick and choose down to two sports(basketball, it is unquestionably the champ, not the case in football).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am with you, ace. It's funny how people skew data and redefine words arbitrarily ("athletics" means football and basketball only according to Toph and uvajoe) to suit their silly conclusion. FYI: UCLA, Stanford, and USC are #1, 2, 3 in terms of # NCAA championships won. UCLA/Stanford just won the men's and women's titles in tennis this past week.</p>
<p>TheCity,</p>
<p>Not that I feel any compuction to justify squat to you or anyone else, the fact is, anyone here (including Alexandre my long time adversary) who knows me or has asked knows that I am a Tiger alum (Princeton) undergrad and Wharton MBA grad. The reason for my moniker? Simply that I am fiercely loyal to both schools - hence "Ivy" grad.</p>
<p>So basically what's YOUR point about my handle? </p>
<p>That's all you can come up with?</p>
<p>Umm... alright, I was a swimmer, soccer play, and triple jumper for track. Trust me, I have a pretty wide range of acceptance for sports. </p>
<p>However the major sports in college are basketball and football. Trust me, if college hockey was broadcast on a more regular basis, I'd probably watch it sometimes. I try and keep up with how Penguin (Pittsburgh) prospects are doing in the college ranks. If college swimming was broadcast I'd watch it. I know Texas had 3 of America's 4 medley relay members (Michael Phelps withstanding - who can't even swim in college because he took the endorsement deals). When it comes to baseball, I know Mark Prior came from USC. I can talk about other sports if you want, although when it comes to rankings I'm not as knowlegeable outside of the big 2. However, I don't think the majority of people are either. </p>
<p>However, to the general public, when you mention college athletics, they think football and basketball. Those sports are the easiest to have a larger scale debate about when it comes to college athletics.</p>
<p>my apologies.</p>
<p>Why didn't you just fuse the two names together?</p>
<p>How about sports people care about? Sports that people care about aren't badminton, tennis, crew, etc. when compared to basketball and football.</p>
<p>Football and Basketball are by FAR the most popularly watched, most important sports in college. Thats why those are the sports to pay attention to.</p>
<p>and to add: thats how it is in high school too...I played football and I was alot more recognized for football than for track and field or any other things because football is the one people care about</p>
<p>Ok, I'll try, Ivy Grad.</p>
<p>No one is going to argue that Princeton and Wharton aren't arguably the best programs in the country along with Yale and Harvard. However, their are other schools that can compete with some of the other Ivy League schools. I went to Ithaca College for 2 years before transferring, and I can tell you that I wasn't that impressed with Cornell students (and trust me, I interacted with quite a few). I can't speak about the last two. I don't know anyone who goes to Dartmouth. I know one kid who goes to Brown, and he's a bright kid. Those are top schools, but to say Duke and Northwestern can't compete with them... eh... that may be pushing it.</p>
<p>Two words: Berkelely Rugby</p>
<p>National champs in</p>
<p>1980,1981,1982,1983,1984,1985,1986,1988,1991,1992,1993,1994,1995,1996,1997,1998,1999,2000,2001,2002,2004,2005</p>
<p>What about lacrosse? </p>
<p>Since '92: Princeton Tigers won the NCAA championship (men's):</p>
<p>'92, '94, '96, '97, '98, '01 and Runner-up in '00 and '02</p>
<p>Ivy Grad, why would someone choose Dartmouth Cornell or Brown over Duke? I sure didn't. Actually some people may, but I can't relate to them. Or were you talking about sports, not academics? In that case, Duke owns them all.</p>
<p>(Throw in Columbia, which has the worst football team ever and not even a good basketball team to back it up)</p>
<p>TheCity - no probs - (i guess i get a little agitated when people always try and attack me by the "cover of the book" - i guess with a name like mine i kind of asked for it...)</p>
<p>thethoughtprocess - i did think about fusing them and came up with a few lame ones...</p>
<p>"P"-Grad
The Orange Quaker
...etc...</p>
<p>i guess i just didn't give it all that much thought, until i realized just how anti-Ivy CC is... trust me, i would have come up with something else had i known beforehand</p>
<p>LOL! Toph, I think every one of us alerady knows basketball and football are most watched. No need for you to repeat the obvious. ;)</p>
<p>You are still just redefining words: best athletics means best football/basketball because they are most watched. </p>
<p>Well, by your definition, I guess this country isn't the greatest in sports because it hasn't won anything in most watched sport in the world--soccer.</p>
<p>good point</p>
<p>good thing in america no one cares about soccer, besides the awesome run in 02</p>
<p>"However, to the general public, when you mention college athletics, they think football and basketball. Those sports are the easiest to have a larger scale debate about when it comes to college athletics."</p>
<p>That's my reasoning for focusing on the big 2. Plus if you read my first post or two, I was talking about academics. Every post that involved sports (football and basketball) were in response to other posts.</p>
<p>Toph, my point isn't that there aren't schools that compete with the "so-called" "lower" Ivies, my point is that the contention that somehow these schools (Columbia / Brown / Dartmouth / Cornell) somehow "ride off of the coat tails" of HYP is just plain ridiculous. </p>
<p>Each one of these institutions are solid across the board be it in admissions criteria, student body, quality of faculty, quality of resources, etc. (albiet with strengths and weaknesses in any given area as one would expect when you are bringing together 8 institutions). Individually each school (for its own reasons) deserves the excellent reputation that each enjoys. But for some reason in the CC "world" people constantly try and knock on these schools for no other reason than the fact that they are Ivies. </p>
<p>Now, is any Ivy school suitable for every student?</p>
<p>Hell no. But that wasn't the argument was it?</p>
<p>Hockey is pretty big world wide, also. Especially the world junior championships. The Olympics and World Cup of Hockey are both relatively big too. International basketball is also growing. And don't forget about '94 when talking about soccer. I still remember watching the US-Brazil game with my uncle and cousin (who are also big soccer fans). I think because of our success in the Olympics, America is considered one of the top countries in terms of athletics.</p>
<p>Okay, maybe you were just responding to others and your position on this is pretty vague. Best ATHLETICS (not just football/basketball) definitely goes to Pac-10. In terms of academics, I would say ACC is slightly stronger overall because of the relatively weak Oregon/Arizona schools.</p>
<p>Ivy_Grad, you're right, people tend to mack on those four Ivy league schools, and its a funny facet of CC culture.</p>
<p>This thread was about Academics? Then I would go with the Patriot League, ACC, or the one with Williams in it.</p>
<p>"What about lacrosse?"</p>
<p>2005 Final Four: Duke, Maryland, Virginia, Johns Hopkins </p>
<p>ACC = 3
Ivy League = 0</p>
<p>Ok, Ivy Grad, I pretty much completely agree with your last post. I think the outlash against Ivy League schools on CC is in part caused by the obsessions that some have. By that, I mean the people who only apply to Ivy League schools, don't get in, and then their lives are ruined because they didn't get into an Ivy League school. I think they are overrated when people don't accept that there are other great institutions. I mean I know things are different now, but I look at my dad. For whatever reason, he went out-of-state to Michigan State. He was a valedictorian, had SATs in the 13 or 1400's (before recentering, obviously), and a swimmer who had interest from some small schools). He went there, and he and three of his best friends (acutally I think they were probably his 3 best friends or at least 3 of the 4) all became successful. Between the four of them, a doctor (my dad), a veternarian, an accountant, and a engineer that ended up moving very high in his company and I believe is a millionaire now. I understand that you can get a great education at an Ivy League school, but as someone looks at this reference and also as a person who applied to schools as a freshman without knowing about rankings, I guess I feel that by many Ivy Leaguers, most other schools are underrated.</p>