"^^^Agree, because those words are used to insult/degrade/intimidate rather than to express a feeling or add emphasis to an expression of feeling. "
Expressing your feelings does not make foul language less foul. No one wants to hear it whether you are emphasizing your feelings or calling someone an (fill in the blank). It really isn’t any different in impact on others. Everyone in the room still has to listen to that.
Again, you are assuming everyone ascribes to the same definition of foul language. Some of us are telling you certain words really don’t impact us as they do you.
Foul language in a public setting is like second hand smoke. All in the vicinity are affected, and it causes discomfort, anger and insult. Those are bad for one’s health.
alh: Are you really arguing that one’s individual feelings about such language takes precedence over our commonly held understanding of what constitutes foul language? Is this another one of those “It’s wrong for you but not for me” things, as if there is no reasonable standard?
Actually I’m arguing that there is no commonly held understanding of what constitutes foul language, and that reasonable people can disagree on reasonable standards. Language norms change throughout time. I am old enough to have watched it happen.
I’m old enough too, and there are a group of words regularly used that we all know are considered foul language. No, I am not listing them, nor should I need to. Goodness, don’t you remember the George Carlin routine? He couldn’t have even done that if we didn’t have a common understanding.
Nothing suddenly made the words culturally acceptable. There is a reason why all these people bragging about their cursing are quick to point out that they edit themselves for specific audiences.
You really can only speak for yourself. Not everyone agrees with everything you say, though I’m sure some people would definitely agree with you. Still, you can’t speak for everyone.
If someone smashes their foot on the coffee table and shouts “Oh, bleep!” I find that FAR different than someone saying “Bleep you, you bleeping bleep!” Yep, I sure do.
I don’t voice my discontent every time I see or hear someone do or say something I don’t personally approve of. Do you?
Right. Comedians regularly do shocking shows that use language most consider taboo. Then a few avant garde films and books use the language and are rated XXX. Then some people in the general public use it in an effort to be edgy. And more films/tv use it. And more people get used to hearing it. And eventually (not now, but at some point in the future) only old fashioned folks don’t use those sorts of words
There are a list of words I wasn’t allowed to use in childhood that are very common in polite society today. I am sure you have a similar list. The F-word isn’t going to be any different. imho. I am sorry it’s distressing to so many. I’m sympathetic. But I honestly believe it’s inevitable. And really low down on the list of issues I worry about myself.
adding: Maybe this helps. DH Lawrence was censored when first published and now suburban housewives make those Fifty Shades books best sellers. We assign Lawrence in school, or used to when I was in school, probably not any longer.
May I have to listen only to old fashioned folks then. Because I despise listening to that spew and will turn off a movie for several reasons, one being that no character appears to be conversant enough with the English language to construct a sentence without constant F’ing and Mother F’ing and using God’s (or derivative) name in vain. I’m out at that point.
I disagree with you. The F word/phrases and all those suckers and rhyming words will always be inappropriate in polite society. That’s my prediction and I guess we will see. Though with every other value crumbling in society, maybe you are right. I hope not.
Agree and I like Dietz’s analogy.
@alh says:
“Again, you are assuming everyone ascribes to the same definition of foul language. Some of us are telling you certain words really don’t impact us as they do you.”
So replace “foul language” with “racism” “sexism” “transphobia” etc
Are you saying none of this matters or only the ones that affect you. I’m guessing you would not be ok with your statement if those words replaced “foul language”. You are aware that foul language does in fact offend others so why not just be respectful to them.
I don’t know if you have had time to read the whole thread. I think all of us on this thread saying we don’t find the F-word offensive, do avoid using it in situations where we understand it will be offensive to others. That is thoughtful behavior and good manners. You can find the F-word unoffensive and still have excellent manners. imho.
If TranquilMind invites me to dinner, I’ll bring a nice small hostess gift, avoid using any words I understand she considers foul language, and send a written thank you note the next day. If she accepts my reciprocal invitation, she will encounter guests casually using the F-word, because they don’t see anything wrong with it. It would make me uncomfortable to instruct guests in my home not to use the F-word at this point in time. I would definitely say something about racist, sexist, transphobic language, but can’t imagine any guest of mine using those words. I don’t really see the comparison there with the F-word, myself. Those are hateful words. The F-word is merely a vulgar word.imho.
Garland had some excellent posts up-thread on all this. I’m just writing the same thing a different way at this point.
I am the person who will turn around and say something to the person behind me who is using offensive words like gay/queer as a slur, gypped, ■■■■■■■■, c-word, ■■■■■, etc. There are historical reasons why those words became negative adjectives and it’s not ok to perpetuate those -isms.
Disliking a word for the word itself baffles me.
Telling someone to f-off or something is no where near in the same league as calling someone an n-word or something.
No, foul language is NOT replaceable with the -isms.
pretty sure I meant “inoffensive”, “not unoffensive” though not entirely positive at this point in the day.
bhs1978: look at post #100 for a much clearer answer to your post than what I wrote.
@milee30 “if you feel language is inappropriate, then it should be inappropriate for men and women, but this BS of language being OK to say around men but not women is part of the problem and why women still have trouble being viewed as leaders and being worthy of the same pay as men.”
Well said. I hate when someonedoesn’t understand why the most offensive thing of all is treataing men and women differently.
We have one guy at work who used to swear a lot (not unusual) and the apologize ONLY to the women in the room. HR finally had to talk to him.
He totally didn’t get it and kept complaining that “everyone swears, why are they picking on me” even though the male vs female issue was explained ad nauseum.
“I they also couldn’t call me by my first name, another pet peeve of mine.”
I belive everyone should be called what they want. If an adult wanted to be called by their last name (not the culuture for the most part where I live, but some wanted ) I told my kids that is what I expected them to do
. But what often happened to me was that though I would like to be addressed by first name by everyone, people who don’t want children to address them by their first name would refuse to let their kids call me by my first name. That ticked me off especailly because they would then call me Mrs. Husband’s Last Name. Which is NOT. My. Name.
When i’d tell them my name was different, they would then call me Mrs. My Last Name and I’d have to tell them that Mrs My Last Name was my mother. I was MS…They would never get it.
I found this incredibly annoying.