@CCSavant
oops correction, it was a 1366 SAT avg for BC for class of 2021. ( 1405 looked a bit high to me for you guys lol). Quite a difference.
And the new SAT range for class of 2022 ( 1340-1480) is still lower than Emory’s class of 2021 range. Still, some catching up to do.
@emorynavy Didn’t really mean to single out Emory. I think Emory is a fine school, just that it seems hard to justify its USNWR ranking vs. BC based on enrolled student qualifications. So it looks like BC has slightly higher ACT score ranges (adjusted for class years) while Emory has slightly higher SAT score ranges. That pretty much looks like a wash to me. I happen to prefer BC while others might give Emory the nod. You would note in my earlier post that I did not single out Emory as one of the schools I flagged ranked ahead of BC in the USNWR rankings that I thought made little sense. I just think that Emory at #21 in USNWR vs. BC at #38 seems hard to divine from the data. I think they are much closer in ranking - whichever school might be viewed marginally ahead of the other. That’s all. All of the rankings have some issues with them, I just find that the Forbes ranking seems to fit with where I would place most of the schools (broadly speaking) - methodology completely aside. My world view is…thankfully my own driven by my involvement in my own kids’ applications processes and a witness to those around them. And yes, I completely agree that test scores of enrolled students are just one snapshot in a much more involved process in assessing schools. But it is one that is hard (though not impossible) to play games with.
@CCSavant they aren’t much closer because Test scores aren’t the only thing that goes into rankings. Also I gave you avg scores to show you that ranges don’t mean everything. Emory has a slightly lower Act range but the same Act avg. BC’s Sat range is only slightly lower on both ends but it’s avg Sat is about 65 points lower. Your veiw of schools is shallow, Emory has created 90% of all HIV drugs on the planet, It’s stature is warrented. BC is not there, and most likely won’t be either.
Hope I didn’t offend BC is a good school.
@privatebanker - I see where you are going with your strength of the pool argument, but strength of the pool is measured by more than just standardized test scores. It’s easy for a school to skim the highest scores, that doesn’t necessarily mean they are getting the best kids. I don’t know that much about Wake, but they do have an extensive supplement and also value interviews, so they must be looking for attributes beyond just scores.
Strength of the applicant pool is undoubtedly an important consideration. And clearly test scores are by no means the only valid measurement of that pool. At the end of the day, all of the top schools will have many more high test score and high GPA applicants than they can accept, and they must make decisions based on a number of factors well beyond these two data points. Having said that, PrivateBanker makes a very valid point about the leading Catholic universities (Georgetown, Notre Dame, Boston College). Many students applying to academically equivalent institutions will not throw applications into these schools due to their perception as “Catholic colleges”, rightly or wrongly (wrongly in my view). As a result, there is a lot of self-selection in the applications these schools receive, such that the applicant pool can be (and is) very strong despite a lower number of total applications. For example, Notre Dame just finished a restrictive early application round where, according to the school, 40% of applicants had ACT scores of between 34 and 36. 20% of the applicants in this round were accepted - implying that at least half of those high scoring students were rejected or deferred. Notre Dame also expects a yield of 67% - 68% from its REA admits, again attesting to the self selection point. These kids are not applying to the Ivy League in the SCEA / ED or RD rounds - an almost mirror image of the kids applying to a broad swath of Ivies or equivalents and then leaving Georgetown, Notre Dame and, to a lesser extent, Boston College off of their lists.
The point here is that while the nature of applicant pools will differ by school, the top schools will have an overabundance of high test score kids to choose from - but admission decisions will be driven by many factors beyond test scores. At the same time, those decisions (as a whole) can typically be made without sacrificing to any meaningful degree a high test score profile of the enrolled students given the quality/depth of the applicant pool. There is no need to “skim”. They are, in fact, choosing the best students - many of whom also happen to have high test scores.
Schools are also looking for different things in their students, some of which may not correlate as strongly with high test scores. This could be a focus on leadership, sports, certain academic majors, diversity, etc. So while differing test scores between two schools may not tell the whole story, I think it is perfectly reasonable as an applicant to flag the issue and to try to understand what is driving the disparity (if it is at all meaningful). Sometimes this even means trying to understand why a school that might not otherwise impress seems to have a high test score profile of its students.
Bottom line, I think looking at enrolled student profiles as means of comparing schools is a very valid place to start. Much more valid than acceptance rates. But it is the beginning, not the end of the analysis.
The USN rankings are interesting, but they really are not that useful if you want to go into more depth in comparing schools. UCI, UCSB and UF are all large comprehensive public research universities that are members of the AAU. These schools wouldn’t be trying to compare themselves to BC, any more than BC would want to compare itself to them.
The Chronicle of Higher Education put out a useful, visual tool, a few years ago, that link colleges by peers. See the following link and search on Boston College. You’ll see the 15 colleges that BC thinks are peers. Of the 15, 3 think of BC as a Peer.
Brandeis University
New Your University
Tufts University.
https://www.chronicle.com/interactives/peers-network
BC’s list of peers is very different, from say UF"s. Here’s a list of 6 peer colleges that also selected UF as a peer:
Ohio State University
TAMU
UM-Ann Arbor
UNC-Chapel Hill
UVa
UW-Madison
BC’s 18-19 Fact Book, list competitor schools of admitted freshman.
Class of 2021
Top 12 Cross Applications
Georgetown University
Villanova University
University of Notre Dame
Northeastern University
University of Virginia
University of Pennsylvania
Boston University
Harvard University
Cornell University
Fordham University
New York University
Brown University
Top 12 Cross Admissions
Villanova University
Northeastern University
Boston University
Fordham University
University of Notre Dame
University of Virginia
New York University
Georgetown University
University of Massachusetts - Amherst
George Washington University
University of Southern California
College of William and Mary
UVA is an interesting “competitor” school, and is likely on the list due to it’s strong liberal arts traditions. It’s appealing to the same group of students that would be interesting in BC, etc.
The EA 2023 numbers are out:
https://bcheights.com/2019/01/21/changed-admissions-policy-increase-applications/
2023 EA Admitted 4,488, 28.7% acceptance rate, EA averages SAT 1477, ACT 34 (up from 1453 and 33 last year)
EA apps 15,862, up 50% (from 10,350 last year), total apps >35k
So they’re anticipating a 20% yield from 4,488 EA offers under the new nonrestrictive EA. (I don’t know whether we can take clues from the FB admitted student group, but it is greater than that, currently 976.) According to last year’s January article, they anticipated a 23-25% yield from EA when it was more restrictive. I hope their yield prediction algorithm is reliable.
I think their math is off here, unless their “over 35k” was really rough, with the actual number being closer to 37. Last year there were 31k applications, so if the total is 35k this year, that would be a 4k total increase, with a 6k EA increase, of which 2k shifted from RD (compared to last year).
By the way, good for BC for not offering a “restrictive” admissions option. They tend to drive up acceptance rates, but are not great for the students.
There are so many reasons why admit scores/admissions rate should not be the only metric used to determine which college is best. The idea that there is an entire thread on BC’s College Confidential page where alums/friends are puffing their chest, using whatever data they think will put BC in a league with the Ivies rather the schools they are cross-admit students (see top 12 above and now below) this is incredibly sophomoric.
Also just to let you know if we are looking at school stats (2018 admitted students):
Northeastern:
ACT: 33-35
SAT: 1470-1550
GPA: 4.1-4.5
Acceptance Rate: 19% (larger school/class size than BC)
Clearly higher stats than Boston College but never once mentioned as a peer (or by your selection criteria perhaps aspirant).
Again just for back of room. Here are the schools BC cross-admits. These are BC’s competitors. Just because those attending BC might apply to Ivies does not mean they are choosing between BC and Ivies in large numbers:
Top 12 Cross Admissions
Villanova University
Northeastern University
Boston University
Fordham University
University of Notre Dame
University of Virginia
New York University
Georgetown University
University of Massachusetts - Amherst
George Washington University
University of Southern California
College of William and Mary
^Northeastern’s reported score ranges may be a little difficult to compare, as the reported ranges do not include about a third of the class (NU.in + internationals), as far as I am aware. The actual ranges for the entire class might still be higher at Northeastern, though it offers a different experience, more of a contrast than other schools on the cross-admit list.
More news from this morning: https://bcheights.com/2019/01/21/csom-minor-enrollment-expectations/
Enrollment in CSOM minors exceeded predictions. It hadn’t occurred to me before now, but perhaps the CSOM change to allow more minors might play a small role in increasing apps, either this year or in the future.
@evergreen5 Do you know if the scores of AHANA students are ever published? I suspect those scores are getting higher and higher, but I can’t find any data to back me up.
@COSpgsparent I don’t think many colleges publish that data (see e.g. Harvard lawsuit). This morning’s Heights article noted that 35% of the admitted EA pool is AHANA, up from last year’s 31.
Yup- I am one of the A&S students approved this year with a minor @ CSOM.
@Gator88NE I would agree on UVA, but would also point out that when BC had REA, only other EA schools could be applied to and UVA was probably among the top EA schools available (along with Michigan, Georgetown and ND) to apply to early. It will be interesting to see if there are any shifts now that BC has gone regular EA. Perhaps more in cross applications than cross admissions.
For those that are not familiar with Wake Forest, S attends. It is quality throughout (students, Profs, facilities, opportunities, etc.) Although anecdotal, virtually everyone my S knows was a Val or Sal with very high test scores. He was top 10 with better scores than the averages you list for BC, Wake , NYU and feels like the black sheep of his tribe (but he’s doing great and loves it). Is a national research university but is run more like an LAC (which means only profs teaching classes, small discussion based classes -even the lectures turn in to discussions because they only have 25 kids in class). Think of it as an LAC that just happens to have a top UG Business school. They just added engineering last yr. The liberal arts core is serious (some would prefer to move into major classes earlier) and takes two full yrs (fortunately it includes prereqs for the B school. ) Very strong recruiting in banking, consulting, accounting, and top grad schools for law and medicine. I’m sure other departments do quite well too.
Yes, Wake is a EXCELLENT school. I applied and was also accepted there as well. However, its undergrad class size is 5,100- almost half of BC’s. If BC cut its enrollment to 5100, it too would likely be loaded with Vals and Sals with very high test scores…The burdens of carrying a undergrad class of 10k. 
My partner at work has d attends Wake as freshman. Couldn’t get off the wait list at bc and Wake was second choice. Now she is so glad it happened. Wouldn’t switch if she could. I hear it’s really nice and they have a lot of fun too.
Wake Forest has a reputation for being a very good school, both rigorous and fun to attend. And I am sure that are some “Vals and Sals”. Having said that, almost 25% of the enrolled students graduated outside of the top 10% of their graduating class. Based on those students who elected to submit test scores (they are not required at Wake), Wake students had a 28 - 32 ACT range and a 1260 - 1440 SAT range. Assuming that those students who did not submit scores had relatively lower scores, the actual results for the class are likely somewhat lower.
So, yeah, I buy into the national research school run more like a LAC perspective. And that is worth a lot. But the data on class rank and test scores are much more like a school ranked outside of the top 50 national universities. Which does not mean it is not a wonderful school and a great choice for many students.
Love WF; its a virtual country club campus. My D might have attended but she never gelled with Winston-Salem.
but, tbf, BC has numbers that are slightly higher.
~85% of matriculants to BC were in the top decile, in comparison to 77% for WF.
Test Scores (And note, that WF is test optional, so the lower quartile might be even lower.):
ACT: 28-32 WF, vs. 31-33 for BC.
SAT: 1260-1420 for WF vs. 1320-1490 for BC
Yield: 37% for WF, vs. 26% for BC, but then WF has binding ED.