<p>How come a hypothetical Asian immigrant who had to learn English from scratch in 7th grade (and I know many of these who have gone through college admissions) is expected to get a 2300, while a native English speaking URM can squeak by with a 1700? I would be surprised if a single asian kid got into stanford with an SAT under 2000.</p>
<p>I'm a Cardiologist so spare me the attempts at superiority</p>
<p>What???? Where did that come from? I said something like I'm sitting at my desk where i practice Child Psychiatry, helping kids succeed...</p>
<p>I deleted my post because I decided to bow out of this thread, like i try to with every AA thread, but I was simply stating that I spent my life understanding how to help kids. I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I'm trying to look at the big picture, not my own application to college. I understand that is not the perspective of most. I don't care about affirmative action. I don't care if it's illegal ( not the way i understand it, but whatev) . MY eyes are on bigger problems then that. (Is that superiority?). I've read stuff from that book and others like it. It is depressing and it makes me angry. I'll stick to stuff that helps me help others. Give me a chapter that will do that, and I'll forgo some CME to read that instead.</p>
<ol>
<li>I love how everybody on this board is so concerned with the "rampant discrimination" of affirmative action, yet not at all concerned with making it so the discrepancy in overqualified college applicants between the races doesn't exist in the first place.</li>
</ol>
<p>The original intent of AA was to force colleges to recruit and offer opportunities to students in minority concentrated areas they wouldn't ordinarily go. I would hope that people would realize that the problem of unequal education for minorities far supersedes the "danger of too many blacks getting into college". </p>
<ol>
<li>Maybe instead of rationalizing gmans admissions to what you THINK colleges like in an applicant, you should use gman as an example of EXACTLY WHAT colleges like in an applicant.</li>
</ol>
<p>Asian kids or over-represented minorities in general shouldn't be punished or held to much higher standards because a discrepancy in qualifications for college applicants of different races exists.</p>
<p>Except that that is NOT what is happening with AA in university admissions and graduation rates. </p>
<p>The minority applicants that benefit from AA are NOT the ones that have no access to higher education. Many come from moderately to highly privileged backgrounds. The poor minority in the lower to lowest SES does not or rarely benefits from these policies.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap,</p>
<br>
It is depressing and it makes me angry. I'll stick to stuff that helps me help others. Give me a chapter that will do that, and I'll forgo some CME to read that instead.
<br>
<p>And how would you feel if you never had the opportunity "help others" simply because you had the wrong skin color and didn't get above 2300 on the SATs? Hmmm?</p>
<p>You know Murgo, its not just about having numbers but also about thinking about what you're reading. What demographics were used? How did they access the data? Was the writer bias? To get the "numbers" that you seem to love so much then you need substantial financial backing. Who provided it.The schools certainly don't give out their records that easily.</p>
<p>And again, once more with feeling, admissions to college is NOT JUST A NUMBERS GAME. If it was the collegeboard would sent the SAT results to the schools and a computer would systematically pick the best scores based on a cut-off point. It is a hollistic approach in which everything is taken into account, yes including cultural background (Not skin-color but cultural background. Big diff). UNDERSTAND THAT. Its only one piece of a very extended puzzle. </p>
<p>But you obviously seem like one of those parents that believe that if you kid didn't get into stanford or Harvard it was because a moronic minority stole his rightful place. And furthermore you have <em>gasp</em> a book to lean on in your argumentation. Oh my. </p>
<p>I just sincerely hope that your kid doesn't take that mindset from you and grow up with it. You've said yourself that he/she's a bright kid. It would really be a shame.</p>
<p>I won't continue this discussion, because I already know by heart the arguments that you're going to bring forth and that no matter how much logic or rationale is thrown your way, you will continue to believe what you believe.</p>
<p>Again, its just a shame.</p>
<p>Undisclosed,</p>
<p>You seem to be...<em>gasp</em>...upset that there is information that confirms the sham that is AA regarding university admissions and I just happen to reference it. Would it have been better if I simply came here and ranted about "sumptin wrong here"! No. So I would ask you show at least a little respect that I have information that goes against the dogma of the day and am simply giving it to others that may be oblivious to it. </p>
<p>Also, this book is no conspiracy theory. As stated, it is heavily cited and researched. The information in it is available to all people of this planet, though it was compiled by a professor who received his degree at Columbia.</p>
<p>You state:</p>
<p>"And again, once more with feeling, admissions to college is NOT JUST A NUMBERS GAME. If it was the collegeboard would sent the SAT results to the schools and a computer would systematically pick the best scores based on a cut-off point. It is a hollistic approach in which everything is taken into account, yes including cultural background (Not skin-color but cultural background. Big diff). UNDERSTAND THAT. Its only one piece of a very extended puzzle."</p>
<p>Except it is NOT. That is one of the major lies of AA. It is based on race, period. </p>
<p>I am not a parent who needs their children to go to HYP or else I will just die. Matter of fact, they probably will not go to any of those. My biggest gripe is lies and policy based on lies. I have no problem whatsoever with healthy FAIR competition. Why do I need to defend a position that asks for universal fairness?</p>
<p>And how would you feel if you never had the opportunity "help others" simply because you had the wrong skin color and didn't get above 2300 on the SATs? Hmmm?</p>
<p>I'm not thinking not getting a 2300 would stop me. I did not need to go to an Ivy to do what I do. And if you don't think having the "wrong skin color" has been an issue for me, I guess I know why I'm going to give this thread a rest.</p>
<p>"I'm not thinking not getting a 2300 would stop me. I did not need to go to an Ivy to do what I do."</p>
<p>Uh-huh. And what if you need a 2300 plus to get into ANY college in the not too distant future? I mean, who would have thought IVY admissions for whites and asians require near perfect scores and a plethora of APs, ECs etc. What's to say that won't be the case across the board? Then? What's next? Mexico? The Caribbean? Europe? You'll just run from the issue instead of confronting the core of the problem?</p>
<p>The bottom line is you are content with discrimination and I am not.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Except it is NOT. That is one of the major lies of AA. It is based on race, period.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Race doesn't get you into Stanford. It tips the scale slightly. Just check some of the "Decision" threads. You see lots of highly-qualified URMs with rejections and deferrals.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Uh-huh. And what if you need a 2300 plus to get into ANY college in the not too distant future?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So what you're asking is essentially "What if you need scores in the 99th percentile to get into one of the nation's 3000 colleges?"</p>
<p>Do you even read what you type?</p>
<p>I think I'm going to have to side with what flutterfly_28 is thinking about and hope that this thread DIES already. My intentions to post up my good news weren't to have turned this into a political issue (although I am very passionate about politics). </p>
<p>This thread is clearly heading in the wrong direction. In conclusion, (it almost sounds like an essay) I thank everyone once again for ALL comments; I really enjoyed reading them all (some very interesting as well, lol). </p>
<p>I wish you all the best of luck throughout your educational experiences WHEREVER you end up. Just because we were accepted or rejected somewhere does not mean we are any better or any lesser than others. A letter that reads either "Congratulations" or "We are sorry to inform you" means nothing; the next four years and the rest of our futures are yet to come, that's the time when we make things happen. Again, thank you all for making this thread one of the most interesting ones I have come across on this forum. I think this thread has already had several attempts of assasination, so lets just let it die now. </p>
<p>-gman6855</p>
<p>To be fair to the disadvantaged, I think that some kind of AA is necessary and healthy to the society, but what I object to is some people got the benefits, then turned around and called others with 2300 and 2400 SAT " worthless human beings".</p>
<p>Let me say congratulations, a tad belatedly, gman6855. I wish you much success in your future endeavors. I am not picking on you and your scores. I am picking on the idiots that decide to bring unfairness to the process. Please do not take this as a personal assault against you. </p>
<p>As for NearL, it is clear he has a poor grasp of stats and group bias in his attempt to "show" the fairness of the Decision thread.</p>
<p>"I did not need to go to an Ivy to do what I do. "</p>
<p>Most people don't need to go to an ivy, including the OP. The main problem with this is that getting into ivies + stanford is viewed as a confirmation of talent and performance, when it really is not. I doubt the OP would be as enthusiastic about his acceptance if not for the fact that Stanford was so prestigious. Perhaps he would be, but for most people it's really what it represents more than what it is.</p>
<p>collegealum314, he could be ecstatic because he got into Stanford, or he could be ecstatic because he's got into a well-respected, rich school that can provide excellent financial aid. With Stanford's new financial aid initiative, the OP probably doesn't have to worry about paying tuition, and probably doesn't have to worry about room and board either. That's something to celebrate.</p>
<p>eh...affirmative action has its pros and cons. arguing about it wont change anything. plus every argument has probably already been argued.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think I'm going to have to side with what flutterfly_28 is thinking about and hope that this thread DIES already. My intentions to post up my good news weren't to have turned this into a political issue (although I am very passionate about politics).</p>
<p>This thread is clearly heading in the wrong direction. In conclusion, (it almost sounds like an essay) I thank everyone once again for ALL comments; I really enjoyed reading them all (some very interesting as well, lol).</p>
<p>I wish you all the best of luck throughout your educational experiences WHEREVER you end up. Just because we were accepted or rejected somewhere does not mean we are any better or any lesser than others. A letter that reads either "Congratulations" or "We are sorry to inform you" means nothing; the next four years and the rest of our futures are yet to come, that's the time when we make things happen. Again, thank you all for making this thread one of the most interesting ones I have come across on this forum. I think this thread has already had several attempts of assasination, so lets just let it die now.</p>
<p>-gman6855
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Nuff said.</p>
<p>Agree with flutterfly_28. This thread should just die because it is getting ridiculous. Give the man the congrats that he DEFINITELY deserves and move on. If you want to argue about all the other crap, move it to another thread. Don't do it here.
Once again, gman, congrats. You are doing so much for the community that you don't even know. Tus padres y tu comunidad deben estar muy orgullosos de ti. Eres un ejemplo para todos los Latinos que nunca pensaron que era posible para que ellos vayan a lugares como Stanford. Que te vaya bien!</p>
<p>you got admitted to STANFORD congratulations .I got a 1750 maybe I could get through.</p>