<p>dear john
you’ve somewhat reasoned this gal, i will be forever awed by you. i tried and failed, gave up and decided to wait until someday keil would earn $3,000 with her own hands. amen</p>
<p>^Sigh. I give up. (Please stop stalking me.)</p>
<p>did this start on the TASP thread? Just curious. Bear - I luv your movie reviews.</p>
<p>keil
i am stalking lovely swat forum and fabulous wes forum, don’t be so self conscious. maybe the one i am more interested in is duhvinci, to tell you the truth.
if you haven’t already long beating john = guru on post counts, i’d bump into you less often.
it’s good we both gave up. peace</p>
<p>thanks john, do you think i could get into film study?</p>
<p>ok duhvinci,
first off, you are a complete ahole. I hope you know you make yourself look like a snobby, elite spoiled brat.
secondly, pmurray62 did not apply to any school early decision 1. he wasn’t sure at the time if swarthmore was the absolute right place at the time but luckily there is ED 2 because by then he had made up his mind. he applied not for the higher acceptance rate advantage but pretty much because he wanted to go there over any other school. thats usually why people apply early decision.
maybe if you actually knew pmurray62 instead of just assuming and making up complete ********, you’d know he was extremely qualified for swarthmore.
he also did withdraw from all the other schools he applied to, he just waited until his parents send in the deposit so it was absolutely certain he was going there. </p>
<p>and "i wouldn’t be at all surprised that the op worked out his financial aid issues with the help of a friendly little missive from the admissions office that they will notify other institutions that op was backing out of ed. " what the hell???
does it make you feel better thinking the absolute worst in people? is this what you did to get into swarthmore so you just accuse other people of doing this to justify yourself? maybe you were the one that was really not up to par with the rest of the swarthmore applicant pool and applied early and somehow got in. maybe it was you that got rejected from ED 1. whatever it is, you obviously have some huge self-esteem issues.
does it make you feel good putting down people? telling them you hope they don’t come to swarthmore?
what a nice way to welcome pmurray to swarthmore. i hope when he gets there next year, he punches you right square in the face. and if he doesnt, i might just drive my little self all the way down from maine to do it myself. people like you make me want to throw up.</p>
<p>you have to get there ASAP, don’t wait till next year, duh will sure to be out there in time with high honor comes may, hurry, before it’s too late!</p>
<p>ok lillifer,</p>
<p>first off, you may be right that i am an ahole, that designation doesn’t affect me one way or the other, but how does my criticism of someone trying to slither out of ed make me appear spoiled, elite or snobby. mind you, i am not denying nor embracing the validity of any of those characterizations, i just want a clarification.</p>
<p>secondly, you are correct that i should have made a stronger effort to actually get to know pmurry personally before commenting on his post. we could have sat down, had a couple of brewski’s, smoked a joint, maybe shot up together, then i would have had a clearer understanding of why the op would apply ed when he couldn’t afford the school. what was i thinking? btw, if the op really really wanted to attend swat, he still could have applied rd and when accepted, he could have waited for the financial aid offer then he could have made a more informed choice. he didn’t have to apply ed II with its better acceptance rate. as you say, he was extremely qualified to get into swat, so why did he need to apply ed II (hmmm, maybe it was the higher acceptance rate after all.) with regard to withdrawing applications, i thought that edII was binding, so why withdraw other applications “until he was absolutely certain he was going there”? when pmurray applied ed II, wasn’t he absolutely certain he was coming here?</p>
<p>next, i don’t think the absolute worst of people, i only think the worse of people who post that they want to renege on a binding agreement. i only think the worst of people that try to take advantage of a system when others play within the lines. i only think the worst of people that whine about the reason for their poor behaviour was a result of others when they could have done something about it beforehand to have avoided the situation entirely.</p>
<p>maybe if you actually knew me instead of just assuming and making up complete ********, you’d know I was extremely qualified for swarthmore…at least at the time i applied. i’m not as certain anymore. “is this what you did to get into swarthmore so you just accuse other people of doing this to justify yourself?” lillifer, your head must have been spinning when you wrote this because it is nonsensical. what did i do to get into swat that i am accusing the op of doing? if you’re referring to applying ed, then yes, i did apply ed, got in, withdrew all my other apps immediately and sent in the deposit, all within a day of acceptance, no cc postings in between.</p>
<p>furthermore, i have never been accused of having self esteem issues, but i may agree with you. i have always said that i have extreme self esteem issues, but my folks, friends and sibs always said too much esteem is not what the phrase “self esteem issues” actually refer to, but heck, what do they know, as long as you and i are at least on the same page. finally, there is someone out there that understands me.</p>
<p>in terms of pmurray and welcoming him, didn’t i apologize to him in my prior posting? also the advocation of violence is so unbecoming, even for someone relegated to the nether regions of america such as yourself. maybe the reason you are in maine is your inability to function within the constructs of civilized society where a difference of opinion is not settled with violence. when you learn to play nice with other humans, then and only then should you be allowed to drive your little self all the way down from maine and interact with folk that have a full set of teeth. if that ever happens, i will be here for you with a bucket in hand.</p>
<p>Duhvinci: I take issue with your characterization of the OP as “trying to slither out of ed [sic].” Are you opposed to the specific phrasing of the Early Decision agreement that allows financial aid applicants to back out if the aid package is insufficient at the applicant’s discretion? I read your stance as saying, “If you apply ED, you should be prepared to pay full price.” This would mean that no applicants needing FA would ever apply ED.</p>
<p>To me, Early Decision is already historically elitist and the elite institutions have taken pains to slowly build up the comfort level of FA applicants who have their school as a clear first choice (and who might be highly qualified students that the institution would love to “bind”).</p>
<p>An applicant who requires financial aid is NOT “absolutely certain” of attending ANY school until the financial aid package is examined. The design of Early Decision allows for this uncertainty. If you think that is a bad policy, please take it up with admissions instead of bashing students who apply understanding the policy in good faith.</p>
<p>The “lines” of this game, so to speak, allow the OP to negotiate financial aid before committing to an ED acceptance. This is entirely ethical by the school’s own binding agreement.</p>
<p>I think it’s easy to blur the lines between EDI and EDII. Presumably, an EDII acceptee, because of the lateness of the admissions cycle, is only seeking to withdraw their acceptance in order that they may accept an offer from a much less desirable college. That, in itself is a significant cost to the acceptee and I have no ethical qualms about that.</p>
<p>But, you seem to imply that it would be equally okay with you if the same person went ahead and re-applied to Middlebury after being accepted by Swarthmore under EDI, even if merely a few thousand dollars more in FA money were at stake. In that case, the checks and balances (the legal term, Duhvinci, would be the <em>consideration</em>) don’t seem to add up to very much. In fact, they seem to favor the student almost entirely. That makes it a lousy contract.</p>
<p>^Early Decision deposits, regardless of round, are due about two weeks after receiving acceptance. If a student accepts Swarthmore’s ED offer, then s/he is ethically obliged to withdraw all pending applications and not initiate any new ones. However, if s/he declines the offer due to financial aid, go ahead and apply to Midd–after all, the student doesn’t know whether Midd’s offer would be any better AND Swarthmore (presumably the first choice) would be gone forever as an option.</p>
<p>keilexandra: this particular op very early on characterizes himself as an upper middle class latino. i don’t know of many upper middle class anythings that get any substantial form of financial aid, do you? with this knowledge going in, even though it was rightfully stated that i didn’t really get to know the op before commenting, i don’t think the use of the word ‘slither’ is inappropriate in this instance. </p>
<p>it is my belief that anyone applying ed should expect to get jack at the financial aid table and anything that is ultimately offered should be considered charity. that’s why there’s still rd. nevertheless, i was certainly not bashing anyone that was applying ed in good faith, i was bashing the upper middle class op who should have expected to get nada (that’s for the op) in financial aid, as is usual for upper middle class families, yet was trying to use the phrasing of the ed language to get out of his binding agreement. there is no doubt that this guy was gaming the system. there was no good faith here. </p>
<p>lastly, even though you think ed is elitist, you certainly took advantage of it yourself. the world is elitist, even in socialist societies. if you think that’s a bad policy, instead of trying to bash me over the head with it, you should divert your energies to building a rocket to mars where its population is truly non elitist.</p>
<p>keil: your last scenario makes ed nothing more than a variation of early regular decision. this penalizes the ed applicant who did apply in “good faith” and lost out to the op and his ilk. what i believe should be improved upon is a universal method for colleges and universities to “blackball” those who try to weasel their way out of their ed commitment.</p>
<p>I will not comment on the OP’s level of FA knowledge or lack thereof, except that I know people who make 180k a year who still “expect” financial aid. Do I think they’re crazy? Yes. But it’s not fair to insult someone for being upper-middle class and expecting some financial aid. Pointing out an unfortunate ignorance of policy is not an appropriate use of “slither” or “weasel,” IMO.</p>
<p>You say that “there is no doubt that this guy was gaming the system.” Given how MANY upper-middle class families I know who expect FA, whether RD or ED, I very much doubt that any gaming was intended. Thus I assert that the OP did apply in full good faith, and I say that with no more knowledge of the OP’s individual circumstances than you do.</p>
<p>
If your belief were policy, THAT would make ED entirely elitist. Because this was the de facto general belief in the past is why it has historically been elitist, and I commend the schools that practice ED for their concerted effort to change this de facto (and now false) belief. There is no reason why an applicant needing FA should hesitate to apply ED to Swarthmore, given its historical generosity and no-loans policy. If the aid offered is insufficient, said applicant would have had to turn down Swarthmore in the RD round anyway.</p>
<p>The scenario I presented does NOT turn ED into “a variation of early regular decision.” Early Action does exactly that. The big difference is that ED requires a deposit from the applicant before s/he finds out admission decisions from most other schools (certainly from peer schools). Once the deposit is made, the applicant has indicated that the FA package is satisfactory and s/he will indeed be attending–THAT commitment can only be ethically broken under a true emergency (e.g. parent dies and student doesn’t want to go to school across the country).</p>
<p>Incidentally, perhaps I shall meet you (and the OP) at Swarthmore next school year?</p>
<p>meeting the op? probably. meeting me? one question first…are you hot?</p>
<p>so i really don’t feel like continuously arguing about everything else but as to the generalizations you make about people, I actually don’t live in maine right now. I’ve lived in california my whole life, ill be going to school in Maine next year. But once again, you made stupid remarks about people which just make your real arguments look even weaker. You said you don’t know how you should elite or snobby. But by making completely false accusations like how I am uncivilized and don’t have teeth, you sound like you think you are above everyone else. you sound arrogant.
You are just hurting yourself since you don’t have any evidence to actually make those remarks and that just ends up hurting the point you are trying to prove.
Maybe saying you are an ahole is a stupid remark but at least I can prove it. </p>
<p>and what a nice thing to ask keilexandra. are you hot? like you are too good to associate with everyone who’s “ugly”? like you are so popular that you only talk to “hot” girls?</p>
<p>problem is, you don’t know what this guy is doing these almost four years here in Swat forum.
listen to him if you can stand(seems you can’t) but don’t have to hear him out.
what this kid does is astounding, I am self appointed fan because …I don’t have right words for it, let’s say when during my commute waiting for the train, I would scan the news kiosk to kill time, all those gossip magazines would have " Jen tells Angie this and that " “Brad is leaving” " Octmom’s new bikini body" all in same font size in same pantone yellow color and wonder are we ( them who acts in it, them who publish, some of us who buy, read them, or laugh at them) ever gonna change? no. if you can exist in the other side of the universe and never have to deal with crap, fine, I am just telling you that it won’t go away even you are heading to say, college like Swarthmore.</p>
<p>of course if given choice, any man would prefer hot girls if he is somewhat comparable and has enough self confidence, if not, you should worry what is the matter with the guy.
If you are young girl and never faced this fact of life, you can join the club.
really pretty girls are usually nice and even ok smart because nothing hindered their growth, teacher, parents, family members, strangers would treat them better consciously or unconsciously.
if anything, Duhvinci is only the victim of the society or system or his upbringing or all of the above, and let’s hope only in this virtual sense he exists in this way, or you’d have to discredit Swat’s adcom.</p>
<p>"really pretty girls are usually nice and even ok smart "</p>
<p>WOW! My D is the prettiest in her grade if not in her HS. She is also the smartest, smarter than any girl, smarter than any boy at her school. Not just in girly subjects. She is infuriated because people don’t take her seriously academically.</p>
<p>I may not have put it that way but I agree with Duhvinci about whining upper middle class. We do have people going hungry and wanting absolute basics in life. Those we help but otherwise can we demand everyone else feel lucky that they have as much as they do?</p>
<p>Duhvinci: I think you have a jerk-like personality, and the style you showed in your posts gave me that impression. It may not be polite but it is the fact. I am little confused to swarthmore adcom in the beginning why they accepted you to the college, but after I think a little bit more, I agree with their decision, because a jerk-type guy is absolutely necessary for the college community and this will help students grow and know how to deal with the guys like you in their future life.</p>
<p>I completely agree with the point that some applicants want to have it both ways—they want the benefits of ED without the costs. (It is actually not clear how great the benefits are since the ED pool is different from the RD pool.) For those who do not like the costs of ED, RD is always available.</p>
<p>i think duhvinci makes valid points and backs up his arguments quite nicely.</p>
<p>also, i don’t know if people actually read the first post, but I don’t know what this OP was thinking when 1. he applied ed II and knew he couldn’t pay for it and 2. when he decided to ask people on a FORUM about what he should do.</p>
<p>therefore reinforcing my already-held belief that you can’t really expect much from people posting these kinds of questions on a college admissions forum. PERSONALLY, i usually like to get financial- and college-related advice from people like… hmm, my parents (who are paying), my college counselor (who are paid to help with these things)… but call me crazy.</p>
<p>it’s great that everything worked out, i doubt it does for most who get themselves in this situation. because let’s face it, this entire situation wouldn’t have occurred in the first place if the OP had realized what he was getting himself into and had known what his family would be willing to pay.</p>
<p>so for anyone who (hypocritically) attacked the criticism or disapproval that arose in response to this foolish post on an open forum: you’re delusional.</p>