<p>Son & I visited last Thursday-Saturday. He went ED, so the point of the visit wasn't so much a final decision as to get a glimpse of who he would be meeting next fall and, for myself, a glimpse of where he would be the next 4 years (his dad went on the initial college visit a year ago).
S will do just fine academically, and I was never concerned about that. He's already taken Calc II at the state land grant U, and aced it despite having mono and being asked to correct the TA when the problem on the board was wrong. He's looking for academic challenge and mentoring, and I think he will definitely get that at Carleton.
However, what sort of person will he be when he comes out?
I heard absolutely nothing from any representative of the college about vision, mission, what to do with your abilities when you're out in the world and how Carleton will shape you for that. Only the outside speaker at the weekly Convocation mentioned anything about the fact being able to attend Carleton was a privilege, so make the most of it in order to make a difference in the world in some big or small way.
The recurrent message was "We're all very academically gifted here. But we have fun in quirky ways and our traditions have great wit. So come be smart & have fun with us. Oh, by the way, we're really sustainable too."
It had the effect of sounding very selfish/self-indulgent.
Nothing about values, character, leadership, ethics, or growing into responsible & productive people.
Nothing.
So, if I still have the same reaction in September, I'll be sending him off with misgivings to Northfield. There is no doubt he will smarter and know more when he graduates. Given what I saw & observed, there's a 50/50 chance he could also be an arrogant jerk with no feeling for his fellow humankind at the end of the four years. I saw and heard no evidence of any sort of structure or support to be a decent human being or development of multiple intelligences. Here's hoping that what ethics that we've as his family have instilled in him will stick, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that Carleton as an institution is interested in supporting that. Academics, frisbee, sustainability, pranks--Carleton firmly supports those. Being a decent, responsible, ethical human being who contributes to society--I just can't tell that Carleton is interested in those things.
I hope I'm wrong.</p>
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<li>Sorry – this got long*</li>
</ul>
<p>I didn’t attend any admitted students days with either of my kids so I can’t speak to what happens there at Carleton or anywhere else. I preferred to visit colleges during a “normal” day apart from what I fear would be dog-and-pony shows.</p>
<p>I’d be happy to PM with you, if you like. I don’t want to put too many personal stories about my son’s experiences on the public web, but I’d be happy to answer questions privately. This is the second post today where I think people just don’t “get” the culture of the college. What could have been said that would have sounded less self-indulgent if they were to talk about how the college grows global citizens? Carls just aren’t going to go on about how awesome they are – that’s why they have parents! 
For proof, I guess I could point to the fact that Carleton ranks third for the top volunteer-producing small colleges that sends kids into the Peace Corps. More evidence: Look at the kinds of people the college brings in for convocations. Here’s who they had last week: <a href=“https://apps.carleton.edu/news/news/?story_id=1123843”>https://apps.carleton.edu/news/news/?story_id=1123843</a> And the week before: <a href=“https://apps.carleton.edu/news/news/?story_id=1121350”>https://apps.carleton.edu/news/news/?story_id=1121350</a></p>
<p>I found this response from a Carl parent on the thread about the tragic car accident Feb. 28. It really captures what those few weeks were like for everyone in the Carleton community. I would post links to other things surrounding that tragedy and the comfort and care offered, but it doesn’t feel like my story to share so publicly. I will share that I have a FB friend who has a friend who is a Carl alum. This woman, who I have never met, reached out to me immediately – the next morning – to offer to help my ds in any way she could. She lives in the Twin Cities and said she would go get him if I thought that would help. She and her Carl dh knew how crushing this would be to the entire community. So when this poster below talks about “an outpouring of love, support and concern” she doesn’t mean to just the parents directly affected but to anyone connected to Carleton because it’s just that kind of place. Anyway, I agree with this parent, and, to me, it illustrates the love and generosity and compassion that Carleton imbues (am I using that correctly?) in its students.</p>
<p>“Yes, there was an horrific accident and the Carleton community lost three wonderful young men. Yes, it is a terrible awful agonizing tragedy. … I have encountered in the last week the most incredible outpouring of love support and concern for the Carleton community from my fellow Carl parents and the greater Carleton population all over the world. This community is unique in many ways but I never realized why. I have kids at other small schools and I cannot imagine those parents working together this way with the administration to bring flowers and notes of support to every single student, lodging, transport and meals for students attending the funerals, and supporting one another with heartfelt deep emotional responses through a parent list serv. I am sorry I had to learn how marvelous Carleton is beyond its outstanding academics through this tragic event but I am prouder than ever to call myself a Carl parent. This community is a rare thing. To be part of it is to be blessed in so many ways. Every parent wishes their children will have fulfilling joyous challenging and meaningful educational experiences in college. If you are lucky enough to send a kid to Carleton you will likely have that wish granted.”</p>
<p>Current student here!</p>
<p>I think if your son becomes “an arrogant jerk with no feeling for his fellow humankind” at the end of his four years here, I’m 110% confident that it won’t be because of what Carleton teaches him. As Youdon’tsay said, Carleton’s a college that really emphasizes goodwill and making a difference in the world. I could go on and on about this, but I’ll just point out a few examples in additions to the ones Youdon’tsay already mentioned.</p>
<p>– Adding on to what Youdon’tsay said about the February 28th tragedy – the thing that made this tragedy even more horrendous than it already was was that it was so obvious that all three (James, Michael, and Paxton) were committed to making the world a better place. We not only lost three very smart people but we lost three people who had so much potential and were so pure-hearted. Their parents spoke at the memorial service at Carleton and we were all left with the sense of loss and what they could have given to the world had they lived. Michael, for example, showed a lot of potential as a thought-provoking writer, and you can see examples of this in the Carletonian archives.
– What’s amazing about Carleton is that a lot of the social justice events at Carleton are organized by students who are passionate about a cause and want to raise awareness or donate funds to a larger organization. For example, a couple of weeks ago, GSC organized quite a few volunteers to perform the Vagina Monologues, and they raised a lot of money for the HOPE center in a nearby town.
– Some social justice clubs: Food Truth, IFSA (Interfaith Social Action), JStreet U, etc. All are active and initiate their own events on campus.
– I don’t know how you got that Carleton was a self-indulgent place from the convo speaker, because a good number of the convo speakers who are chosen are chosen to inspire the students to use their talents to do good. You can see the remaining convo speakers for the year here – <a href=“http://apps.carleton.edu/events/convocations/”>http://apps.carleton.edu/events/convocations/</a></p>
<p>Anyways, the values that Carleton emphasizes are pretty implicit in the atmosphere of the school. I think it’d be pretty impossible for your son to last four years without becoming a “better” person. Usually, parents see changes in their students’ maturity by the end of a term.</p>
<p>TLDR – Carleton students are fantastic and, unlike students at other schools, care deeply for other people in the world and don’t participate in social justice events just to put it on a resume.</p>
<p>Okay–
I’m glad to read these responses. I think this is why the complete lack of discussion of vision or purpose struck me as being so odd and disconcerting.
Nothing from the tour guide on these topics you’ve mentioned.
Nothing from the admissions officer.
Nothing from the VP for Admissions at the dinner for parents and students.
Nothing from the representative faculty member at the table (genial conversation about trends in chemistry, though)
Nothing from the President at the beginning of the evening’s speeches (more about broomball)
Nothing from the faculty member during the departmental open house.
Nothing from the assistant Dean of students (more about ultimate Frisbee)
The only staff member to use the phrase "the whole person " was a/the rec center director and she was discussing --you guessed it–frisbee.</p>
<p>So the only encouragement to current or prospective students to make a difference that I witnessed in my 48 hour visit was from the wonderful Convocation speaker and not anyone officially part of Carleton.</p>
<p>I think that is great information for the college to have, Bekp. I know in the past that a student worker would monitor this forum. I hope that still happens and that your thoughts are passed on to administration.</p>
<p>That’s kind of what I meant when I talked about dog-and-pony shows. I didn’t want to hear just what they wanted me to know; I wanted to ask questions in what I thought were more authentic situations. I spent two days and one night in Northfield that last week in April while ds was deciding on a college. I purposely didn’t rent a car and walked everywhere (I was exhausted by the end!). I took a shuttle from the airport and quizzed the van driver, a fourth-generation resident of Northfield, and the only other passenger in the van, who used to be head of the Faculty Council and who that fall by coincidence became my ds’s adviser. I asked the dining hall workers whether the students were nice to him. I went to a baseball double-header and eavesdropped on a seeming bigwig alum and others about initiatives the college was pursuing. And then the next day in the admissions office I asked the adcom what he thought so I could see whether his ideas aligned with the alum I had heard the day before. They did. 
I talked to moms at the game whose sons played for the team and moms from the opposing team what their impressions were of the school.</p>
<p>What did your dh think of the place when he visited?</p>
<p>It’s funny that ultimate came up so much. I don’t know whether you know anything about the game, but, yeah, it’s not a surprise that Carleton is the kind of place where it would thrive. The sport is ruled by something called Spirit of the Game and doesn’t have referees. The players settle disputes themselves. Weird, right? It’s a fast-paced, athletic sport that, like Carleton, tends to fly under the radar. But between the men’s and women’s DI and DIII teams on campus, Carls have won six natl championships since 2009 (CUT two, GoP three and Eclipse one). Carleton is REALLY proud of its ultimate teams. All four teams have qualified for regionals and hope to make another run at a championship this year!</p>
<p>Can you tell I will be sad when ds graduates this year? :)</p>
<p>You do understand, don’t you, that the “wonderful Convocation speaker” didn’t just drop out of the sky? These speakers are carefully selected, and invited to speak at Carleton because they are voices that the college community wants to hear.</p>
<p>And, to be honest, if I, as a parent, attended an admitted students event, and the recurring theme was how the college’s graduates are making the world a better place, I’d probably be turned off by that. That is absolutely an appropriate them for a graduation ceremony, but if I’m trying to evaluate a college as a place for my student to live for four years . . . no, for my student to thrive for four years, I want to hear about something more than duty and responsibility. I want to know my student will be able to make this college his home. And that includes having fun. :)</p>
<p>Keep in mind also that the students who’ve been admitted to Carleton are, like your son, students who already understand that they have a responsibility to make a difference in the world. If that wasn’t who they are, they wouldn’t have applied to Carleton. And they probably wouldn’t have been admitted.</p>
<p>Maybe you and your son should have looked more deeply before he applied ED… that is a risk that you take with early decision; not one that is talked about a lot, but that you don’t get the chance to attend multiple accepted student visits before deciding for sure.</p>
<p>I don’t think Carleton DOESN’T work on the whole person, but they are pretty laid back about it and may not put it in your face like some schools might. I think Carls tend to be more on the mature side to start with – big name schools aren’t as important to them. I think Carleton is a school that lets students explore their own interests and figure out their paths themselves through exploring a lot of different subjects in a fairly rigorous environment – I don’t see them as a big “top down” molding sort of place, although they do have a very highly ranked teaching faculty that I think exert a lot of positive influence on the students. And while as a parent you might like to hear about “duty and responsibility”, that honestly isn’t going to sell a lot of kids on going to Carleton, which is still the purpose of accepted student weekend who have not made up their minds yet. What you are asking for sounds more like a graduation speech than an accepted students weekend speech. </p>
<p>I will say that I have been to this dropoff process twice with my kid (different colleges, but I happen to have spent quite a bit of time on the Carleton campus for other reasons). And I don’t really remember hearing anything about the “whole person” at any of the accepted student weekends. I feel like you were listening for something you wanted to hear, and maybe getting more and more worked up when you didn’t hear it over the 24 hours there… </p>
<p>To my way of thinking, choosing a college to inculcate “values, character, leadership, ethics” would leave one with a very narrow range of schools perhaps consisting of the military academies and colleges with very strong religious affliliations. Fine institutions if that is what you want out of higher education. But I think those personality traits are much more likely to have been formed in the home environment before DS or DD heads off to college as a legal adult at age 18. I looked up the definition of “Minnesota nice” on wikipedia the other day, and think it has relevance to what one hears publicly pronounced at Carleton (and is one of the reasons S2 chose the school). Here’s what wikipedia says:</p>
<p>Minnesota nice is the stereotypical behavior of people born and raised in Minnesota to be courteous, reserved, and mild-mannered. The cultural characteristics of Minnesota nice include a polite friendliness, an aversion to confrontation, a tendency toward understatement, a disinclination to make a fuss or stand out, emotional restraint, and self-deprecation.</p>
<p>Thank you for this discussion! great point dadx3! </p>
<p>This got long…sorry!</p>
<p>We also attended an ASD 2 weekends ago and as a parent I initially had similar feelings to Bekp2018. So I will share our experience and perspective gained. Carleton was my daughter’s ‘reach’ school. D is an independent, bright, collaborative free spirit who loves science and music. She is not competitive - and so she has never suffered her B’s, hence the slightly lower GPA and ‘reach’ for Carleton. All along her academic match/safety was St Olaf, so when we first visited Northfield, we spent most of our time at St Olaf. We came back for the ASD at both schools to re evaluate St Olaf, and to consider Carleton. </p>
<p>Carleton was very laid back. As parents, we received the welcome sheet of paper/schedule a la ‘here’s some stuff to do- figure out how to make the best use of your time’. After the nice welcome dinner,and an eclectic evening of Asian choral music (kind of a funny choice to convince 18 year olds to attend), we parents were optional. I think that about sums it up. We are optional - even the tuition bill apparently comes to our kid and we have to be opted in?That’s independent! D went off with her host and I didn’t see her again until the Saturday am pick up for the St Olaf ASD. </p>
<p>Since D is my first to leave the nest, I was looking for more assurance that Carleton might be the best place. The campus resembled an east coast LAC or prep school, though aside from the Library and the Weitz, the buildings seemed a little tired, though apparently they have just completed a ’ long range plan’ for the campus so needs are being addressed. Everywhere we went, I asked the kids if they were happy and they all said they loved the place. And you can’t beat the 97% retention rate of freshman as an indicator of Carleton doing something very right. </p>
<p>I attended 2 parent’s panels. Many parents asked hard questions about getting into grad school, and about the value of the liberal arts and Carleton, especially in the age of strong discounts aka merit scholarships. All about ‘value’.The college had reassuring answers to those types of questions but I am sure information conveyed varied by panel and day and was driven solely by specific questions asked. There was no one unifying theme like ‘The liberal arts to save a dying planet’ or some such, but there was the sense of purpose that a good education is a foundation for everything else. That’s it.</p>
<p>All in all, it did feel a little like "here we are, take us or leave us, but hopefully take us’. Late the second night of D’s visit, she texted me saying she felt she could really fit in at Carleton (should I be comforted that she was coming from the Drag show (!) -again another interesting event on an ASD weekend!). </p>
<p>We went to St Olaf in the am. All in all, I felt the St Olaf ASD seemed more geared towards convincing and welcoming parents. And convince they did. Fantastic welcome. Excellent panels and staff everywhere to answer your questions. St Olaf states its’ purpose loud and clear. They have the wonderful ‘Conversations’- And the voices of the Oles…. I certainly wanted to go there… BUT…. despite its’ strong music, the gorgeous science building and campus, and a generous merit scholarship, D just made the choice for Carleton listing a number of specific reasons, but mostly, ‘It just feels more like me’. I almost cried…but then, I finally had to ask myself, who is the one going to college here? </p>
<p>The Dean at St Olaf said something wonderful at their opening event. “College admissions is a match to be made and not a prize to be had”. I have met many others and have myself been blinded at times by the lure of merit money or the US News rankings or some vision of a perfect school that meets my expectations. But in the end it is where the kid will fit in and where we hope they can and will flourish. </p>
<p>Carleton is certainly low key. But then there are Asian music ensembles, and drag contests and a cookie house! What an interesting place.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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<p>nohelicopter - My story was similar to yours. By looking at my ID I’m sure you can guess that my son is finishing his junior year. My son’s decision was also unexpected. I’m sure your daughter will be very happy at Carleton. Bekp2018 - in my opinion, Carleton has everything you are looking for but Carleton never brag or advertise it. I think Carleton let the potential student figure out by himself/herself. ‘arrogant jerk’ is probably the least likely words that most people will categorize Carleton’s student. I realize that my reply is a little too late, but in my opinion, your child will receive excellent education and the values that you are looking from Carleton.</p>
<p>I know this response is late, and the OP may never read it, but it has 1k views. Others will read it.
My thought can be summarized by my pal Holden Caulfield (page 2) as he talks about the fictitious prep school he was just kicked out of….</p>
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<p>The point is that there are legitimate arguments that expecting a school to “shape” a student does more harm than good and discussing it comes across as deeply insincere.</p>
<p>The Carleton faculty didn’t “just forget” to talk about how they planned to “shape” its students. I’m proud that they chose to omit this type of discussion. </p>
<p>……I’m good with Carleton alums being compared to grown up Holden Caulfields ;). I think the individual interactions students have with faculty and other students as well as the opportunities they receive are more important that an overriding vision or mission that Carleton would impose on its students. </p>
<p>I hope OP comes back after some time has passed to tell us how it’s going. nohelicopter, too!</p>
<p>I thought of this thread when I read this: <a href=“http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings-2014/liberal-arts-colleges-rank.php”>http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings-2014/liberal-arts-colleges-rank.php</a></p>
<p>Note that the ranking criteria include “service (encouraging students to give something back to their country).”</p>
I came across this thread today and thought I’d try a shout-out to the OP and see how it’s going. @Bekp2018
I know it’s dicey asking a question when you don’t know the answer, but I’m willing to chance it.
Hmmm . . . it’s mixed. I happened to see this follow-up question as our younger son is starting his college search.
Overall DS1 is very happy at Carleton; he sees it as a success. I worry, but that’s just a mom thing, I suppose.
Positives–he is working very hard and is definitely challenged. He has a successful roommate pairing this year; last year he was in a triple where the other 2 guys were athletes & moved in early; he was barely left with any space so he never felt like his room was “his place.” Within his intended major, he really likes his professors and they have been encouraging and supportive. He’s picked up a new instrument & the private lessons are going well & provide some balance.
Mixed–he has seemed to make a large number of friends. Some seem very positive; one has been featured in the criminal beat stories of the local paper. Some profs outside of the department have been fine. One didn’t give any grading/feedback until the end of week 7 so he ended up having to take the class as pass/fail.
Negatives (or what I see as negative)–with the exception of 2 individuals, he has cut off all contact from anyone he knew in high school. Other than breaks, there is almost no contact w/ younger sibling–including texting, etc. Some major anxiety issues have flared up which aren’t totally unexpected, but nothing that required treatment/intervention previously.
Thanks for coming back, OP! I knew I was taking a risk not knowing how it might have gone, but I felt confident enough that it would be good on balance. And that seems to be the case, for the most part. Good luck to ds2!
After 7 weeks of not knowing how the class was going. Why didn’t he go talk to the prof at week 2 or 3? This is what Carleton is all about. Ask questions and reach out. But first term can be hard. Hope it is better now.
For whatever it is worth, Carleton profs can sometimes be very evasive about feedback on grading no matter what term or year you are at Carleton…at least this was the case back in my day. This very likely has nothing to do with your son not “reaching out”. Always be prepared to take a non-major class pass/fail. I think the issue is the concept at Carleton that grades are “not important” or a “distraction from learning”. This is all well and good if the issue is between getting an A or A-…the problem is when you don’t get feedback for 7 weeks and you find your are getting a B-. Be prepared to take classes pass/fail.