Accepting Scholarships-when?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>I know there have been some posts on this, and if someone could direct me to them, I would really appreciate it! My daughter has been offered substantial merit scholarships at 5 different universities so far. Of course, she still needs to audition for all of them, and won't be done with those auditions until the end of February, so won't know about acceptance into MT programs until mid-March at the very earliest. In their letters, only one of the schools has asked her to deny or accept the scholarship, but it got me to thinking. What is the best protocol here? Should she drop all the schools an email and explain the audition circumstances and let them know she will not be able to make a decision until she has heard from all (13!) schools? Is a request for an extension necessary? Or does she go ahead and accept scholarships, and then deny them if she doesn't go there? How does that work with more than 1 school???</p>

<p>Thanks for all contributions to this question!</p>

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<p>Our DD is in the same situation, but I’ve just assumed the schools know she may not decide for sure what she’s doing until May – and certainly not before auditions are over (unless her ED comes through in the next couple weeks).</p>

<p>I’ll be interested to hear if anyone thinks we need to do something to accept/reject scholarships she’s been offered before May?</p>

3

<p>Wow, we just got faced with this same situation today! D got a letter from one of the schools she auditioned for and they have offered her a pretty good scholarship (it’s not a huge amount of money but it’s a really inexpensive state school so it goes farther) they want her to decide - and sign a CONTRACT - by January 14th!! Saying that if she accepts this offer she cannot consider any other offers, and if she doesn’t accept by Jan 14 the offer is off the table.</p>

<p>This is the departmental scholarship. Pretty much all the schools she has applied to have accepted her as far as just the school itself (not the theater departments yet - and no, she’s not all that brilliant, just applying to mostly academic “fits” :wink: ) and some have offered merit scholarships but none have said anything about a deadline. Just this one talent one. And that school has offered her merit scholarship too, but there’s no deadline on it.</p>

<p>In addition to the fact that she won’t even be auditioning at some of the schools until MARCH, and that many of the rest of the schools’ scholarship offers aren’t even decided until we file the fafsa - how can they reasonably expect her to be able to make a decision?</p>

<p>Also this is just for her freshman year. I think she has to reaudition each year for scholarships. The grade required to maintain this scholarship (something to keep an eye out for, sez the mom with the older son who bounced on that account) is very modest, but the requirement goes up in their sophomore year. </p>

<p>There are some wonderful schools (that are not even “lottery” schools, that she could very likely get into) that she hasn’t even had a chance to visit yet! She might like them better. They might cost too much though. Or they may cost less. We have no way of knowing any of this by January 14 for Pete’s sake!! There are a lot of things about this school she really likes but she really likes the other school that has accepted her so far, too, and she would like to at least get a chance to find out about the other ten or so that we have already PAID APPLICATION FEES to, yaknow??</p>

<p>Exact words are “in accepting this offer of financial aid from <em>school</em> I understand the institutional stipulations and recognize that I may not consider any other offer from an institutional member of the National Association of Schools of Theater or the (a Texas Theater association) for the academic year 11-12 except with the express consent of the theater executive of <em>school</em> Any violation of the above ethics standards will in immediate withdrawl of the scholarship.”</p>

<p>I’m a bit miffed because they have two other audition dates - one in March - and obviously had she waited to audition at that time for them, they wouldn’t be able to ask for her decision NOW - and I had called to ask if there was any difference really between the different dates and they said nothing about making her accept a scholarship so soon after auditioning. Had we known we would have auditioned later.</p>

<p>How common is this? What should she do?</p>

4

<p>Wow, sdf…</p>

<p>I’m no expert, but I wonder if, reading your quote, it’s just saying that if you accept a scholarship at another school, they would pull the scholarship from the school w/the deadline…which would be okay, because your kiddo would not be attending school with the deadline, having chosen the other school…??? (And around and around and around we go.) </p>

<p>My kiddo has been offered a talent scholarship at a school that asked her to sign and return it ASAP, but stated: “Please be advised that due to numerous applicants, we will not be able to extend award deadlines. Returning the included paperwork does not obligate you to attend…” On the scholarship contract is “This award becomes active upon matriculation only.” As this school is a strong contender for her, she wants to return this revokeable contract…and let them know later if things change. However, yours doesn’t sound as if it’s got the same flexibility. I think this is time for a call to the department!! </p>

<p>As for the academic merit awards she’s received from other schools, I’ll spend some time over the holidays re-reading their fine print, but I think they “hold” until a student deposits and commits to that one school.</p>

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<p>Well, I certainly don’t begrudge them giving the money to someone else if she doesn’t go there, lol! It’s just that it sounds like they will do that anyway if she doesn’t commit to them by Jan 14. Which is just crazy. I know they have to put their entering class together and all but who on earth has all the information they need to make an informed decision by Jan 14?</p>

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<p>Snapdragonfly, the school and department you are discussing have a lot of nerve putting your daughter in that situation. First of all, they want to talk about ethics? What they are doing is in direct violation of the statement of ethical practices issued by the National Association for College Admission Counseling (NACA) pertaining to the May 1 National Response Date:</p>

<p>"3. permit first-year candidates for fall admission to choose among offers of admission,
financial aid, and scholarships until May 1 and will state this deadline explicitly in
their offers of admission.
a. It is understood that May 1 will be viewed as the postmark and/or
submission date for electronic submissions. When May 1 falls on a
Sunday or holiday, May 2 becomes the recognized date.</p>

<p>b. Offers of admission must clearly state whether deposits voluntarily
submitted by students prior to May 1 are refundable or non-refundable.</p>

<p>c. Colleges will neither retract nor adversely alter their offers of admission and/
or financial aid prior to May 1, for candidates who choose not to reply until
that date nor will they state or imply that candidates might incur such a
penalty by waiting until May 1 to submit an enrollment deposit."</p>

<p>Moreover, the Code of Ethics of NAST do not actually support the unreasonable approach taken by this school and department:</p>

<p>"ARTICLE II
STUDENT RECRUITMENT</p>

<p>Section 1. Recruitment policies and procedures shall demonstrate concern for the needs of students, the institution, and the national effort in the education and training of theatre professionals.</p>

<p>Section 2. It is ethical for an institution to utilize procedures and techniques to develop a student body with the highest possible qualifications. However, such procedures and techniques must be applied in a national framework of common practice as outlined in this Code to protect the interests of both students and institutions.</p>

<p>Section 3. Institutions shall meet NAST standards regarding published materials and Web sites in fulfillment of their responsibility to provide accurate public information.</p>

<p>Section 4. Students are free to attend the institutions of their choice. However, at an appropriate point in time, a commitment in writing must be made between students and institutions. At such a point, administrators, faculty members, students, and all other parties involved must clearly state the nature of these commitments, the schedules for their implementation, and the conditions under which such commitments may be released by any or all of the parties."</p>

<p>Nothing therein supports attempting through coercive means to compel students to make a “binding” commitment in January when May 1 is the well publicized National Response Date. In this regard, even NAST’s own ethical standards require practices that conform to a “a national framework of common practice” among NAST members (see section 2 above) and what this school is doing certainly doesn’t meet that “Ethical Standard”. </p>

<p>What the school is doing is nothing but fear tactics and unfair practices. It is also one with no real teeth. What’s the worst that happens - your daughter decides to go somewhere else and without further explanation simply withdraws her application. If you think it is appropriate, there is nothing to prevent your daughter from responding and then later concluding that a different school is a better match or fit and withdrawing her acceptance of the offer at a later point. While some might say that this would not be “ethical” on your daughter’s part, in reality, the school and department are attempting to turn a regular admissions application into ED using coercive financial aid practices. That’s plain wrong. It’s predatory. And it is totally unenforceable by the school or department. All they can do is withdraw the scholarship offer. In these circumstances, I would have no problem with protecting my daughter’s interests over the school’s by taking the offer and then seeing what comes own the road. They are “gaming” you, “game” them back. (Although, I would also be skeptical that if this is how they treat you when they are “courting” you, how arrogant will they be once you are “married”? Unless there are compelling reasons to the contrary, particularly given that your daughter has another acceptance, I would seriously rethink whether this is a school and department my kid should continue to consider under any circumstances.)</p>

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<p>@MichaelNKat – THANK YOU so much for that thoughtful and well-supported post!!</p>

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<p>Last year, when my D was applying for MT, she received several merit scholarships before her auditions and acceptance to the programs. She “accepted” all the scholarships and then, after she made a decision in April, she simply sent the schools an email declining the scholarship. I think that is pretty standard practice. It is my understanding that no school can force you to commit before May 1, unless you chose to apply Early Decision.</p>

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<p>We also were in that position last year. We responded that my D would not find out about her last acceptance until late April and that we would notify each school as soon as possible but no later than the May 1 National Response Date. She did turn down offers at any school that she knew definitely she would not attend as soon as she was sure. Once we responded citing some of the material in MnK’s post, it was no longer a problem.</p>

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<p>Thank you, all, and especially MichaelNKat, for your help. My questions are answered, as I hope are everyone else’s. If you need a giggle in the middle of this, check out my post in the next thread “Comedic Relief” to see a funny send-up on this issue!</p>

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<p>MichealNKat, thank you so much for your knowledgable response. </p>

<p>I have the same inclination to be a bit mistrustful about the school on account of this…unfortunate as it ranks highly on our “want” list in 3 key areas.</p>

<p>It is certainly Kelsey’s intent to be considerate enough to let all the schools know as soon as she makes a decision…but as we can’t do that without even knowing what her choices are, it’s a bit premature to say the least.</p>

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<p>Megpmom and Takeitallin, did any of the schools your daughters accepted scholarships from also tell her that if she accepted them she could not consider scholarships from any other school? (and this is a departmental, not a university, scholarship, at a school that doesn’t do ED, so there is no ED involved)</p>

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<p>I don’t remember the exact wording. I believe most were along the lines of “accept the scholarship or lose it. If you decide not to attend the scholarship will be void.” The one that worried us was the one where they offered her admission to the program along with a scholarship, and asked for a decision by a certain date, way before she had heard from all of her schools. However, once she told them that she would not be making a decision until she had heard from all of her schools, one of which might be in late April, they were OK with that. I don’t think any schools worded an offer such that “you have to decide now and can’t consider any other offers once you accept this one”. I would respond in writing citing the NAST Code of Ethics that MnK referred to (post #6), and telling them that you will make a decision once you have all of your offers. If they say they can’t wait, I would seriously consider dropping them as it would appear they do not have the student’s best interest in mind. I think it is totally unfair of them as they well know that your D has not finished the application process. It just adds more pressure to an already stressful process! Good luck!</p>

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<p>I could be wrong, but it’s quite likely that the person who wrote the scholarship letter simply doesn’t know all the NAST rules that MichaelnKat so graciously provided. (Thanks for that BTW.)</p>

<p>From some of snap’s earlier posts, I think I can infer which school she is referencing. If it’s the one I think it is, they are a legitimate small school program, that probably has very little feel for what other schools do. I’m also guessing that the scholly is very small, more of a token of appreciation than a significant number (correct me if I’m wrong).</p>

<p>You probably don’t need my advice, but if it were me writing an email response, it would go something like this:</p>

<p>"We were thrilled to recently receive the Theatre/Fine Arts scholarship offer from xxxxx for our daughter. What a pleasant and welcome surprise. xxxxx has become one of our daughter’s top choices, and this scholarship offer adds even more strength to our opinion of your program.<br>
As she works toward her final college decision, we would like clarification on the deadline for scholarship acceptance. Your letter states that we must accept the scholarship by January 14th, 2011, or it will be off the table.<br>
Through our research of programs over this past year, we were under the impression that all scholarship offers from accredited theatre schools are valid until May 1, 2011. That understanding has influenced our scheduling of auditions at theatre programs that our daughter is interested in. As a result, we have some auditions that are scheduled after January 14, 2011.
If our understanding of scholarship deadlines is incorrect, then please use this letter as notice that we cannot accept the department scholarship. But we are still very interested in your program and will decide as soon as practicable if she will accept admission.
Thanks again for the generous offer, and for helping us to clarify the deadline situation.</p>

<p>Regards, snapdragonfly"</p>

<p>The school can then only have two reasonable responses that might go something like this: (1) Ooops, we made a mistake about the deadline, and have extended it to May 1, or (2) Sorry if there is a misunderstanding, but our scholarship money is very limited, and we attempt to use it for prospective students that are ready to make an earlier commitment. We would still be elated for your daughter to join our program, and will patiently await her decision.</p>

<p>The first response shows contrition and good faith. The second response will show something else.</p>

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<p>Good reply!</p>

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<p>arrdad, that is excellent. Thank you. And the amount is not a really huge number, but it’s within the realm of what we have been told most of the theater/talent scholarships run in this area; combined with the relatively affordable cost (compared to the flagships, oos, or private, anyway) of the University it would probably put this school about as close, financially, to a range that we wouldn’t lose sleep over as it’s possible to get these days, especially with a d who has good but not STELLAR grades. (as in valedictorian/nms range, which she is not)</p>

<p>But, it would help. And it is a really good program with one feature in particular that is more appealing than even the big lottery to get into dream schools - which is probably the main appeal for this school…but we need to know what the deal is. Your suggestion would help us figure that out quite well so THANKS so much!</p>

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<p>arrdad’s suggested response is a well thought out and measured response that would certainly flush out the school’s intent to the extent that there is any reason not to simply take the words in the scholarship offer at face value (i.e., where the school says there is a January 14 cut off to accept and then it is withdrawn and that if you accept, you are “barred” from considering other offers from other schools). The only arguable ambiguity, if you want to parsec the words, is whether the phrase " any other offer" refers to scholarship offers or offers of admission, but that is a distinction without substance since usually scholarship offers come contemporaneous with or subsequent to offers of admission.</p>

<p>My take on this and how I would respond is based on a perspective that the college admissions process - even in small arts programs that you want to feel or believe have a different “gestalt” to them - is on certain levels a “business”. Schools and programs are in the business of attracting applicants, setting acceptance and rejection numbers, and predicting yield. Policies and practices, including admission and scholarship policies, get set in these areas for reasons that go beyond just educational concerns such as program capacity and desired class sizes for effective education. Whether it be internal budget allocation decisions with the kind of internal arm wrestling and competition that goes on, marketing statistics or the school’s administrative and operational needs, these policies and practices are often in place to serve the institutional interests of the school or department. The interests and needs of applicants are subordinate and often irrelevant. I think snapdragonfly’s situation falls squarely within this realm. I also do not think that the letter represents an uninformed communication issued by the department. If this school is like most, all admissions and scholarship policies are developed through a committee process. There are departmental committees, committees with multiple department heads, committees with multiple department heads, admissions and central administration, all of whom discuss these kinds of things. This letter represents a conscious decision made through a deliberative process with the input of many. It’s wording is intentional and knowing, not the result of an uninformed individual.</p>

<p>The letter reflects a business decision made to serve the institutional business interests of the school or department. Where I take issue with it is that it is intended to be coercive in nature. It capitalizes on the financial concerns which students and parents have and uses economic leverage to attempt to force a student to make a premature decision that is not in the best interests of the student. For a parent and student, the college application and admissions process is the “business” of methodically finding schools that best meet a student’s interests and needs programatically and which are the best financial investment. To the fullest extent I can control the process, I would not allow my student’s interests (and my financial interests) to be subordinated by the business interests of the school. Parenthetically, when my daughter was applying to schools, she was offered quite substantial scholarships based on talent and academics. Not a single one of them was conditioned on a commitment prior to May 1, including the scholarship she was offered by a rolling admissions small BFA program in mid December of her application year.</p>

<p>For these reasons, in conjunction with my comments in post #6, my response would be different if my daughter and I concluded that this school should remain on her list. I would respond in the affirmative to preserve options. Then at the end of the admissions process, once all the options are on the table, I would decide how to proceed with this school. If it is no longer a finalist based on other offers, then withdraw the application. If it remains a finalist, I would suggest that my daughter sit in on classes and talk to students to determine if it is really a place she wants to be. Bottom line, the school is acting inconsistent with established national practices and codes of ethical practices of national organizations of which it is a member to serve its own interests. I would take the course that best serves my kid’s interests. Either decline and walk away from the school because you and your daughter are sufficiently turned off by what it did or accept and see what comes down the road. That way, you keep control of the process for the benefit of your daughter. Just my opinion. :)</p>

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<p>MichaelNKat - when you explain it that way, about it being a very deliberately placed policy, I think that sounds like the most likely scenario. Very good points.</p>

<p>I think she needs to figure out if this school will stay on her list or not and proceed from there. She has until Jan 14 to decide. (lol)</p>

19

<p>So here’s a question – kiddo has received an academic/merit and artistic scholarship from a school she has been artistically and academically accepted to and would very happily attend (of course, we’re still in the midst of audition season here, and she would like to see how things all pan out). The school would like the contract returned “by 2011”. No official date given, but notice that scholarship funds are limited, and will likely be exhausted before the end of their audition season. Scholarship due dates will not be extended. They state that the returned scholarship contract is not binding until and unless the student selects to attend (by the infamous May 1 date). </p>

<p>Does signing and returning this “lock” her into this amount of scholarship? (She’s at the maximum academic they give, and a nice talent award, but this is a pricey school…). Don’t know if there’s any room (or if anyone has successfully) to request more scholarship help…and whether a signed agreement on file would say “I accept this, and I’m done.” Guess a call to financial aid is in order…but was wondering if others have experience or wisdom!</p>

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<p>Mommafrog,
I figured out which school you are discussing by looking at the acceptance posts. FYI, that school has a very long history of pressuring students to accept scholarships and admittance well before the national deadline. If you look under their school posting section, I believe you will find much discussion on that issue. For that reason alone, my daughter decided not to apply there, as even though they appear to have been called on the issue many times, they seem to refuse to change this unethical policy. Apparently, they have enough applicants that are unaware of the national policies that they don’t see a need for changing, and that attitude would cause me great concern for future dealings . . . just thought I’d alert you.</p>