<p>Check out this website:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.virginia.edu/accessuva/[/url]”>http://www.virginia.edu/accessuva/</a></p>
<p>For those of you too lazy 
to click on the link above, this is what I gathered from the website (I may be wrong, so you might want to double check)…</p>
<li><p>If you are a low-income student (i.e. you make less than or equal to 200 % of the poverty level), your loans become grants.</p></li>
<li><p>If you are a student (which most of you would be if you attend :)), need-based loans will be at most 25 % of the four year total cost for an IN-STATE STUDENT - everything else will be in grants.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Based on Virginia.edu, that means you will have need-based loans of only $16,753 - in state or out of state.</p>
<h2>More info (and I don’t think it includes AccessUVa)</h2>
<p>$17,033 - average indebtedness after 4 year; if $16,753 is the max with AccessUVa, you can clearly see that most likely the number $17,033 will drop.</p>
<p>Despite all of the hoopla, this program will provide little or no benefit to most of the kids on CC as parents will still have to meet their "expected family contribution". UVA is an excellent school but other than the draconian Jefferson Scholarship process there are no scholarships for out of staters and only traditional need based aid for any student. There should be a required disclosure that says "middle income need not apply".</p>
<p>I would have to disagree with you glasshalffull. It is true that this is only helpful to people whose "expected family contribution" is less than UVa's expected costs. However, there are many people on CC who fall in that category. UVa is trying to be a school not only for the rich and well-off that are smart, but also a school for the low-income students that are smart - i.e. a school for smart people in general. It would be great if everyone were to get a full ride, but that is not possible. It is admirable that UVa is trying to attract smart, yet low-income students. The Jefferson Scholarship, however, is not the only scholarship available. Check out this website:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.alumni.virginia.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://www.alumni.virginia.edu/</a></p>
<p>Yeah, I guess that's why only 4% of last year's student body qualified as low income and received the Pell Grant. This is the lowest of any state university in the nation. I think I saw UCLA at the top with over 30% of last year's student body qualified as low income. </p>
<p>Now ask yourself, 'which state university is helping their community and which is pandering to the elite??' As a state university, UVa has a responsibility to it's community and this is where UVa gets a failing grade.</p>
<p>By creating AccessUVa, Casteen is only desperate to try to protect his legacy of not being known as the UVa president who turned UVa into an elitist state university who turns their backs on the poor. </p>
<p>(I guess he finally noticed all the students driving their Escalades to class.)</p>
<p>This problem is systemic at UVa. It's built into their reputation and admissions process. Sooo many low income people with very good academic records have been turned away by UVa the word has gotten out. UVa Law school alone has seen minority apps drop by over 50%. I wonder why? I guess recruiting students based on their family's ability or potential to contribute to UVa's $2 billion endowment might have been a failure?</p>
<p>It also has a lot to do with the corporatization of the higher education system in the USA. Many departments are being run like profit centers. The liberal arts suffer cause it can't generate huge profits. Salaries of many notable profs, who may have won Fields medals, might earn the same as a student just receiving his Phd.</p>
<p>AccessUVa is Casteen's way of just throwing money at the problem and not addressing the real issues.</p>
<p>Why bother trying to apply to an elitist institution who only seems interested in improving their US News ranking when selecting their student body?</p>
<p>Oh, I forgot to mention that the funds for Casteen's 'AccessUVa' were created at the expense of raising tuition by 10% each year over the next 5 years. You do the math. </p>
<p>Oh what a nobel gesture Casteen makes especially when it's at the expense of the students.</p>
<p>Actually, it is 8%, not 4, who qualify for Pell Grants:</p>
<p><a href="http://suuva.org/articles/279/low-income-rank-shocks-uva-the-daily-progress-may-26-2005%5B/url%5D">http://suuva.org/articles/279/low-income-rank-shocks-uva-the-daily-progress-may-26-2005</a></p>
<p>Still not a great number I agree, but at least Casteen is doing something about it. I don't understand your reasoning however - you want UVa to be more accessible to low income students and "stop pandering to elite", but yet, you are against raising tuition for the well-off. Don't you see a contradiction there?</p>
<p>You also make a lot of other assertions. First that this "pandering to the elite" is built into the system and that minority apps to the Law School are down 50%. Since, you were wrong about the 8% of Pell Grants with an error of 100%, I believe that instead of me looking up your various statistics, you should provide proof of them. Maybe you are right about the rest of the stuff, but I think that since you were wrong about the Pell Grants, you should provide evidence for everything else.</p>
<p>Also, please do not state opinion as fact. You are free to make any statements you wish, but please add the disclaimer that either you have no evidence to back it up or provide the evidence.</p>
<p>Lastly, if UVa has the image of "pandering to the elite", why not take up the task of letting people know about the AccessUVa program. If low income students' loans become grants, then why not let people know about this great opportunity. UVa is trying to be accessible to low income students - help us out and spread the word.</p>
<p>VA Alum, why so defensive? Can't stand the fact that UVa has a black eye when it comes to admissions and low income students? As a state university, UVa has the responsibility to help their community. By having the lowest enrollment of low income students in the nation, UVa has become an elitist university.</p>
<p>58% of last year's incoming class reported family incomes of $100,000 or more. 20% reported $200,000 or more; yet only 2.4% of U.S. households earn that much. Does that look like pandering to the rich? Does that look like recruiting based on a family's ability to donate to the endowment?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20040920/1a_cover20.art.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20040920/1a_cover20.art.htm</a></p>
<p>Here's an article with a variety of possible solutions... (Might want to note the author.)
<a href="http://chronicle.com/free/v50/i04/04b00702.htm%5B/url%5D">http://chronicle.com/free/v50/i04/04b00702.htm</a> </p>
<p>So sad, instead of admitting there's a problem you feel the need to attack the messenger. I don't know if AccessUVa is a step in the right direction. Seems like a desperate act to mask other systemic problems.</p>
<p>BTW, did you happen to pay for your own tuition? If so, then you'd understand that increasing tuition 10% a year over the next 5 years can be quite costly for anyone who has to pay for their own tuition. There are other ways of paying for AccessUVa without having to make students and parents suffer for the failings of an institution.</p>
<p>Like I said, "Still not a great number I agree, but at least Casteen is doing something about it."</p>
<p>Yes, I acknowledge there is a problem. However, your statements that the school is "pandering to the elite" and the problem is systemic are your opinions, not based on facts. Do we need to improve? Of course, as does every school. However, to state that Virginia has some sort of policy to admit rich kids over low income kids is false - Virginia practices need-blind admissions. It does have legacy, but so do a lot of other schools - and that's different from admitting rich kids.</p>
<p>AccessUVa is a great program that will help attract a lot of great low-income students. Think about it. If you are from a low-income family (200% of poverty level or below), you will only pay your family's "Expected Family Contribution" - which the Federal Government determines and you will get full financial aid for the rest. Plus, the financial aid package is such that all loans will become grants. A great deal if you ask me.</p>
<p>Also, note how the articles you cite (especially, the USA Today one) have a positive tone - as in Virginia is trying to do something about this problem - not exactly an elitist attitude.</p>
<p>I think our real problem is our image. People think that UVa is not for low-income students - such as you. Even if the perception you are giving out is incorrect, people may believe it and we loose great students. Please read about our recruitment efforts before attacking us.</p>
<p>VirginiaAlum, you're wrong. UVa is no longer practicing a "need-blind" admissions process as you claim. According to Jack Blackburn, Dean of Admissions, UVa is now practicing a "need-concious" admission process: <a href="http://www.virginia.edu/topnews/releases2005/admissions-april-6-2005.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.virginia.edu/topnews/releases2005/admissions-april-6-2005.html</a>
Of course, they have to since they've adopted AccessUVa. Please do try to keep your statements factual as you are misleading people. (Perhaps Mama and Papa didn't get their money's worth from the UVa 'papermill?')</p>
<p>So, please explain how AccessUVa will address the systemic issues that have led to the FACT that UVa has the lowest enrollment of low-income students in the nation? </p>
<p>All AccessUVa will do is increase the number of low-income applicants. It doesn't address the real issues. It also shows how much of a failure the University of 'Virginia' is at helping lift up their own community from a life of poverty.</p>
<p>This issue, in part, is created by UVa's admission process. Blackburn and his staff have relied far too long on high SAT/GPA scores in their admissions process. This gives the edge to rich families who can afford to send their kids to the best schools and best SAT prep programs. This is what I call "pandering to the rich." It doesn't address the 'life issues' that may have contributed to an applicant's lower GPA or SAT score.</p>
<p>With AccessUVa, by increasing tuition by 50% over the next 5 years, Casteen is making the students and parents pay for his state university's failure of admitting low-income students. How is this good for the student/family of average income?</p>
<p>BTW, I have a friend who worked in alumni contributions and he's well aware of how UVa recruits students based on 'a family's ability to contribute to the $2 billion endowment.' You'll also note the very same issue being mentioned in an article titled "Class Struggle." You might want to digest it before you continue to champion UVa and AccessUVa:
<a href="http://www.virginia.edu/oaaa/Turner%20Class%20Struggle.doc%5B/url%5D">http://www.virginia.edu/oaaa/Turner%20Class%20Struggle.doc</a></p>
<p>If you read the first article you cite, you will see that it improves my position more than yours. Virginia used to have a "need-blind" admissions policy - i.e. no systemic problem of admitting the rich. Now they are focusing on a "need concious" policy, benefitting low-income students - not taking people because they are low-income, but trying to identify people who are low-income and encouraging them to apply and come to Virginia. If anything, Virginia is "pandering" to the low-income students than the rich. But in reality, it is pandering to neither the rich or low-income, just pandering to the best.</p>
<p>If you consider admitting people with the highest GPA / SAT scores as well as best essays and activities (i.e. life experiences you talk about) as "pandering to the rich", than our only disagreement is your word choice.</p>
<p>Either way, it seems that you have set in your mind that Virginia is for the rich - and there is nothing that I can say that will change your mind. However, what I would like to know is what are your suggestions to our supposed problems?</p>
<p>UVA provides little or no inducement or support for its strongest academic applicants either in or out of state. The Jefferson Award, provided by a separate foundation and not directly by the University, is the lone outstanding exception. UNC, in addition to the Morehead and Robertson (in partnership with Duke) also provides over 180 strictly academic merit scholarships (growing soon to 250) while its Carolina Covenant accomplishes everything that Access UVA does for both in state and out of state.</p>
<p>Like the Ivy's -- "Public Ivy" must mean come from lesser economic circumstances or bring your check book and help UVA pay for those who cannot afford UVA in addition to paying your own full cost. As I have said, "middle class need not apply".</p>
<p>I believe a state university has a responsibility to its community to help lift up the poor and not ignore them. This problem isn't as simple as saying 'low-income students aren't applying.' That's just a cop-out. The problem at UVa is systemic. It exists in the admission process. It exists in UVa's recruitment of students. It exists in their scholarships. It exists in the Greek system. It exists in their sports programs. It exists in the dorms. It exists basically on all levels. </p>
<p>Casteen shouldn't make the middle class family pay for AccessUVa. Real scholarships should be created that don't force tuition to increase by 50%. AccessUVa might force out the middle class family who may not be able to afford the increased tuition. Hence, exacerbating the issue. Of course, that doesn't matter much if the middle class isn't your target recruit. Hence, 'pandering to the the rich,' and making UVa more of an elitist institution.</p>
<p>You will never really affect change until the administration addresses these issues on an overall basis.</p>
<p>While i detest the negative nature of this discussion, i must saythat spyderman24 seems to be a bit extreme in his anti-UVA rhetoric- could rejection have anything to do with it? I must also add that i have several friends from tennessee, meaning out of state, who are now able to afford to attend UVA because of financial aid. If they had not been given financial aid then they would have been forced to attend MTSU or UT because of financialconstraints. What a lot of people also dont know is that Casteen publicly admits the drawbacks of the financial aid situation. He spoke at an alumni meeting in nashville a few months back and talked about the need to improve accessUVA. Ultimately for people like my friends in tennessee, UVA's financial aid program helped tremendously. One of those kids was actually not given much financial aid from UNC or Harvard.
with regard to the Jefferson- it is NOT draconian by any means- it was one ofthe best experiences of my high school carrer and many people who went to national selection will agree. And the reason it isnt offered by the university is that the foundation has better options for fundraising and investing then it doe if it was part of the university. By making it part of UVA it becomes part of a state instituions and hence would be hampered by further politization.</p>
<p>And when you're lecturing about UVA's lack of concern for its community, please keep in mindthat 99% of UVA students and alums would be seriously insulted by that statement. Most students take part in university sponsored or related public service endeavors and many go on to have distinguished carreers in community-oriented fields such as public health, labor rights, and civil rights in Virginia, the South,and the greater US.</p>
<p>UVAJeff, </p>
<p>A state university has a responsibility to help lift up the poor in their community from a life of poverty. The discussion is about how UVA, as a state university, has become an elitist institution and has turned their backs on the poor in their community. </p>
<p>AccessUVa only masks the systemic issues at UVa that have created the lowest % of students in the country that qualify for the Pell grant.</p>
<p>While you've come a little late to the debate and choose to attack me instead of deal with the issue of AccessUVa, I agree with your point about the alums. I know many alums that volunteer and aid the community, but that's not part of this discussion.</p>
<p>The problem is that UVA has to find a way to put money into financial aid, while maitaining a sound financial grounding, and remaining a top institution. I'll cite the Tennessee system once again- while academics there are not terrible, they by no means compete with those of UVA i nthe sense that overcrowding is a major problem. It si far from elitist in comparison to Michigan, which students at my school had terrible experiences with, or even the UC schools. AccessUVA is far from perfect but its a first step towards a solution. Also, some of the problem rests with the electorate- they want an increase in revenue without an increase in taxes to pay for it, and instead of increasing the number of out of state acceptances, which bring in money due to the tuition increase, they want more instate students to be accepted- its a quandry typical of any capitalist society.
I also apoligize if i came off as attacking you i definitely didnt mean to come of as such- i was just slightly insulted by your diatribes against the univeristy which seem to span several threads.
PS-he work of the alus is very much part of the discussion- UVA is one of few top instituitons that inculcates a sense of community values and giving back- it definitely pertains to your comment about responsibility towards the poorer members of the community</p>
<p>UVAJEFF, admirable as it is, the volunteer work of the alums/students doesn't directly lift a community's poor from a life of poverty. It only helps ease their suffering. A college degree is what lifts someone up from a life of poverty. </p>
<p>When it comes to the % of students at UVa who qualify as low-income, the fact that they are at the very bottom of the nation-wide list exposes a major problem with the institution as a whole. I understand how unsettling it can be to discover that you are a product of an elitist institution.</p>
<p>Like I've said before, if the admissions process is heavily weighted towards students who only have the best GPA/SATs, then your system excludes students who have life issues that may have prevented someone from getting a 3.8 or a 1380...etc. When your adcom makes statements like "We're not admitting anyone that doesn't have a 3.7 or higher this year," then you have a serious problem.</p>
<p>AccessUVa also makes the parents of middle class pay a 50% higher tuition. Of course, that's not a problem if they aren't your target recruit. AccessUVa doesn't address the systemic issues of being an elitist institution. It only guarantees UVa will receive more applicants, and not have to change the processes that have created the problem in the first place.</p>
<p>" I understand how unsettling it can be to discover that you are a product of an elitist institution."-wow that was pretty arrogant- im gonna be a first year this fall so im not really a product of UVA as such- plus ive gone to a public school all my life so dont lecture me about being a product of elitism- whats mre if anyone looks at other UVA threads they know that you wanted to be a part of this elitist tradition as well. In fact the only person on this thread who is being elitist is you- you're the one who is constantly preaching about how elitist everyone is at UVA and how its trying to hold down the poor.I went to orientation a few weeks back and none of the students who described themselves as poor felt that UVA was discriminatory towards them. And if you look at the acceptees lists you'd know that UVA accepts a broad variety of students- not just 4.0, 1600s</p>
<p>Plenty of students with low gpa and sats are accepted in state and put of state</p>