Accomplished dancers in a BFA MT program

<p>Does anyone know how the dance part of the BFA MT programs work? As I look at the course of study, it shows everyone taking beginner ballet and beginner jazz dance, etc. Is there a challenge process for the dancers to at least take instruction at their accomplished level?</p>

<p>I know that OCU MT majors take dance with the dance majors. They level each one individually for placement every semester. So if you have a lot of dance training already, you will not be stuck in beginner classes. I would think this would be the norm rather than the exception at all the MT schools.</p>

<p>That's what I thought and not knowing what each students background is, I am sure that they have to start somewhere. I am only questioning because some of the freshman required classes for these programs seem like they would be a repeat for someone who has been studying dance for years. It is not surprising that some students may feel "overwhelmed" with their schedule if they have a lot of 1 and 2 credit classes that are repeats. I am sure that they have this program down to a fine art and place students where they are challenged and not bored.</p>

<p>Here's a thread which may interest you:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/457829-dance-programs.html?highlight=tisch+dance+levels#post1059746977%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/457829-dance-programs.html?highlight=tisch+dance+levels#post1059746977&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This is an example of an area of curriculum which should be explored in detail prior to applying, as there will be definite differences school to school.</p>

<p>How the dance component of a BFA MT program is structured really can vary from school to school in terms of the balance with acting and voice, the level of training available, the number of classes required, the types of dance available, whether the classes are run by the dance department or the MT department, whether MT students take classes with dance majors etc. These are all questions to research and ask at specific programs. The answers you will get can vary widely from school to school. As a very general rule, most schools provide training in ballet and jazz and will allow students to demonstrate that they should be placed at a level commensurate with their prior training and abilities. Tap, Partnering and MT/Theatrical Dance are also offered at various schools. You really need to explore this in depth at specific schools to get the answers you need.</p>

<p>Is there a delicate balance in the questions that one asks? The appt.s at the college admissions visits are question and answer meetings and not interviews. How do you keep the questions general, yet specific, as I here you saying that each school is specific in their policies. The PA school that my s and his friends attend have college level conservatory classes 4 days a week for 3 hours each day (the classes are actually run through the local college). I realize that there are various levels of training and experience and to best decide both academically and arts wise, the questions are important. So, without saying, "this is my level of training", which sound like an interview and not an information session, what do you recommend. I have tried to find students on cc that can report back or alumni from my s school, but they are all home for the summer and so I am doing my best to get the info in order to formulate the questions to pose to each college when we visit next month.</p>

<p>What I would do before visiting a school is to look at the MT curriculum posted on the school's website. Most BFA programs post their curriculum so you can see how many and which dance classes are built into the MT curriculum and how the dance load compares with acting and voice. You can then go to the course descriptions in the course catalogue to get a more detailed description and to determine if the MT dance classes are through the dance or theatre departments. Then look at the faculty lists for the MT and dance departments to determine if there are common dance instructors. Armed with all of that, you will have a pretty good foundation to decide what questions are pertinent. If you are reluctant to ask your questions during the public portion of the info session, speak to the department rep after the session ends. My experience is that department reps are usually more than willing to answer individual questions after the formal session ends. There is no reason to feel reluctant to ask any question that is important to you; you are entitled to be an informed consumer for the type of money a college program costs! :)</p>

<p>Thank you. I am in the process of doing exactly that, and being that we are traveling a long way to the college visits, I have made private appts with the admissions offices. This is all to go along with the long process of deciding how to do a dual major at one of these school. CC has been very helpful in pointing out the pros and cons of trying to do a BFA and a BS. Although is is clear that the colleges offer such a program, I have been encouraged to ask the hard questions as to not go into something blindly. As I have looked at each individual course of study, course descriptions and even schedules, I am still a bit confused as to why it is discouraged to carry 17 to 18 credits per semester. At each of the 3 colleges that I researched, there were classes for about 4 to 5 hours a day and all of them ended by 5pm. Can you give me some insight as to why that would be extremely difficult even if you were in a production for a show? The students at my (they attend school from 8am to 5pm), private voice and dance after school and still rehearse for school productions and community theatre. I am looking for the missing piece of the equation. I realize that there is no "canned" answer because every student is an individual, but I am still trying to muddle through the pros and cons of a BA/BS combo vs a BFA/BS combo and this is going to be important for the question asking sessions to each college.</p>

<p>sorry part of my message got lost. What I was trying to say was....The students at my s's PA high school carry very tough academic schedules, 4 days of conservatory (they attend school from 8am to 5pm).....you got the rest I think.</p>

<p>briltbrat1961,
Again I implore you to ask the head of the MT Dep't. about the double major possibilities in addition to the admissions office. I do hope you expand your list because admissions to the 3 schools you mention is very competitive. My D, an extremely accomplished dancer minoring in dance in addition to her BFA in MT, had to take beginning ballet with her freshman class. Additionally she qualified for and took advanced ballet all year as well as intermediate modern (was moved to advanced modern for this year). Her credit hours were 19.5 first semester and 24.5 second semester, retaining her 4.0 but it was not a cake walk. Good luck!</p>

<p>I can't speak to the schools you have researched since I don't know which ones they are (and might not be knowledgeable about them anyway), but I can share some general observations based on the schools to which my daughter applied and her experience as a freshman MT BFA student.</p>

<p>I agree with those who have advised on other threads that it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to obtain a BFA in MT and a BS in another discipline (particularly a demanding one) in the course of a normal 4 year college experience. Simply put, the time demands and extremely structured nature of a MT BFA program would preclude this. A BA program in theatre would be better structured to permit the flexibility and time commitments required of a dual degree program.</p>

<p>The time demands of a MT BFA program are extreme. Don't be misled by mere "credit hours" which may not even reflect the actual time spent in class. For example, my daughter carried 16 and 16.5 credit hours last year which in reality constituted 26 and 27.5 hours of class per week because several classes were fewer credits than actual hours of class time per week. In addition to extensive reading and writing of papers, she spent hours working on songs, memorizing and rehearsing scenes, analyzing scenes, working as crew on shows, preparing for show auditions and attending numerous shows as part of her mandated class responsibilities. Her days started at 7:30 am, went not stop and she did not call it quits until 12:00 am on a typical day. As a sophomore, it will be more of the same plus she has been cast in a show for the fall which will have her in nightly rehearsals for a couple of months. My daughter attended a top flight high school, took a huge number of honors/AP classes, had unweighted gpa's of 4.0 her junior and senior years, took dance, voice and acting classes after school, was in school shows and community theatre; her academic school day started at 7:30 am, ended at 2:30 and at that point she would embark on her performing arts classes, show rehearsals, homework etc. My daughter has unequivocally stated that her freshman year in a MT BFA program was more intensive, demanding and time consuming than any of her previous experiences.</p>

<p>Add to it that most BFA programs are highly structured and usually leave little room for courses outside of the department. 8 classes outside of the department is not unusual. Not only is the curriculum for a MT BFA mostly mandated courses but often the school assigns the sections so as to control the distribution of students among the sections and keep class size at targeted numbers. What this means is that even if the curriculum for a given semester has room for an out of department elective, there is no assurance that a course a student desires to take will be offered at a time that fits into the BFA course schedule. </p>

<p>In addition, for most students, living at college will require them to assume responsibility for daily life tasks that were often taken care of for them at home - meals, laundry, cleaning.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that a BFA program is also a physically and emotionally demanding experience. It is critically important for a student to have SOME down time to recharge their psychic and physical batteries and to, of all things, get a good night's sleep. In my opinion, a student that attempts a dual degree including a MT BFA program could very well end up compromising their health.</p>

<p>Finally, as ttmom recommends, don't pose your questions to the admissions office, ask the heads of the departments or their designees whether a dual degree would be possible. You need the input of those who know the daily demands of each program inside and out.</p>

<p>britbrat1961 - similarly to what MichaelNKat said, I've found that at many schools where I visited or auditioned for that the actual hours in class is greater than the number of credits awarded. For example, after looking over my classmates' schedules for fall the average number of actual hours that will be spent in class by the freshman UM MTs is around 22 or 23 - and that's in the first semester and includes only one non-MT class. By "credit hours" this winds up to be 14 or 15 hours depending on the ballet level and academic class taken, and freshman are also required to tech one of the fall mainstage shows. Some freshmen also take a second academic class during the fall semester or will tech a second show (in order to fulfill the requirement), and second semester we add acting as well (which is, I believe, another 4 hours a week). Classes end by 6, actually, and (according to the freshmen that I talked to) rehearsals run between 7 or 7:30 and around 11. And keep in mind that though many are studio type classes there is still homework - when I visited in the spring, the class of 2011 was working on 30 page research papers on the history/creation of musicals assigned to them by the head of the department, Brent Wagner. </p>

<p>This is Michigan-curriculum specific (though I can say with confidence that this will likely be the case with other BFAs), but I do not think that there are enough hours in the day. During first semester of freshman year classes generally start at 10 and are over by 6 - though students are not continually in class for all those hours, there's not room to fit other full classes in the breaks. For example, say a student takes ballet from 10-11:30 and piano from 12:45 to 2. Though in those 4 hours they're only in class for 2 hours 45 minutes, the likelihood of them finding an engineering class that a) fits in that slot and b) they can get to/from without being late is very unlikely. Consider that with the extensive engineering requirements they would have to take an additional one or two academic classes above the number of academic classes recommended for a given semester by the MT curriculum. Also consider that there would have to be some sort of scheduling miracle so that for all 8 semesters the exact engineering classes needed at that point in the engineering curriculum would be offered at exactly the right time and in the exactly right location so that the student could make it to all the classes. Also consider that the out of class work for both majors matches, if not exceeds, the in class time commitment. And, of course, also consider that the student would (assumedly) want to actually have a social life and have fun during their four years!</p>

<p>If your son is really torn enough between these two majors (MT and engineering), perhaps he should reconsider the type of programs he is looking for. As I mentioned in another post (and I think it's worth repeating), I've always been told that one should not attempt to make a career out of performing unless they absolutely cannot do anything else and be as happy. BFA programs are pre-professional and operate with the goal of training an actor who will be successful in the business and therefore are not designed to give a large degree of flexibility to the student. As mentioned many-a-time, the acting world is highly unstable (both in terms of employment/unemployment and, by association, the emotional turmoil that accompanies it) and so why would a student dive into that when there's something they could be doing and be just as (if not more) happy? At least from how you've described him so far, it seems like your son would do very well in a BA program where the school has strong engineering and theater. Northwestern would be a great place to look - it's a BA in theater with an audition-based MT "certificate" program (essentially a minor) and their engineering is also top-notch.</p>

<p>britbat1961, after looking at other threads, I saw that the 3 schools you are looking at are Univ of Mich, Penn State and Syracuse. My daughter was also accepted at Syracuse and attended the pre-college summer MT program there so I can give you some insight about its MT program.</p>

<p>The dance component of MT at Syracuse is very strong. It has an emphasis on ballet as the core fundamentals for all other dance. A student can place out of "beginner" classes. Of the 5 BFA programs my daughter auditioned at, Syracuse's dance component of the audition was by far the toughest.</p>

<p>Syracuse is also another school where the BFA MT curriculum is very structured with a fixed sequence of courses for all 4 years. The curriculum provides for 8 electives outside of the department. Many minors require 9 courses and some students squeeze another class in. The time demands on MT majors well exceed what the curriculum shows on "paper" and when we met with theater department reps were informed that dual majoring was not feasible in a 4 year time span. In addition, unless things have changed, the BS degree offered in theatre is for BFA students who are not successful in their juries and are given the alternative of the BS program instead of leaving the department altogether. It is not a degree program that students are directly admitted to. In sum, I would not consider Syracuse as an opportunity to major in MT and something else.</p>

<p>When you visit the schools I suggest that you talk with someone directly in the department about double major possibilities, class schedule, dance curriculum, etc... the people in the general admissions office often do not know the ins and outs of how things are managed in specific programs.</p>

<p>In terms of hours in the day -- I teach in a BA MT program, and even though there are some students who double major (usually with enlgish, history, or media arts), we do not have any who double degree (for example a BA in Musical Theatre and a BS in a science field). If a student did want to double degree they would probably need 5 - 6 years to complete the two degrees, and/ or study during the summers (taking out the possibility of summer theatre work)... so while it would not be impossible, students would have to be prepared to stay longer in school. Even with the media arts degree students struggle to complete it in four years (even with a lot of APs when they enter), because there are certain classes that are required in the upper level of the degree programs that meet at the same time. </p>

<p>As far as the schedule -- in the BA MT program where I teach the students are in classes usually until 5:30PM, and start rehearsals at 6:30PM or 7PM... many are also in student groups that have meetings after rehearsals end at 9:30PM or 10PM... so they are starting any homework after all of that. Many of their classes are performance based, so the homework is often different for them than for an engineering or business student (although the theatre students do also have to take theatre academics, and quite a few gen eds). This kind of schedule is typical at BFA and BA MT programs... I think this is why people are saying that it could be difficult to dual degree BFA MT and BS Engineering. I would assume that engineering might have labs that met in the evening and conflicted with rehearsals... also -- I would think in both programs there are limited sections of required classes, so scheduling could be come difficult.</p>

<p>PS -- I was a BFA student at Syracuse in the MT program.... The schedule would make it very difficult to do both the BFA in MT and the BS in Engineering. Possibly the BS in Drama and the BS in Engineering would be more possible. I suggest asking the departments directly.</p>

<p>GOOD LUCK!</p>

<p>KatMT - I don't believe the BS in Drama at Syracuse is offered to students as an initial option when applying. Unless something has changed since my daughter applied in 2006, it is an option only for BFA students who for one reason or another conclude that the BFA program is no longer appropriate for them but want to stay in the department rather than moving to a major in a different department or leaving Syracuse altogether. Your suggestion to speak directly to the departments is spot on - much more complete and in depth information than speaking to admissions.</p>

<p>I am told that NYU has four levels in every form of dance per year, so that the program can accommodate accomplished dancers at their level every year. Soozievt can tell you more about this.</p>

<p>At most of the auditions, if not all, the schools mentioned that a BFA MT was like doing a double major all on its own. At IU they were very insistent that students be aware that the BFA MT program would take up all of their time and they would be constantly faced with choosing the program over other things. For instance they said if one was interested in a semester abroad or even joining a sorority this would not be realistic with the BFA. Just to be clear as I think someone once misinterpreted that as IU wouldn't allow joining a sorority - that isn't what they said - they just said it wouldn't work out. They encouraged anyone with interests outside of 100% BFA MT to enroll in the BA program and not the BFA MT program. Alternatively they might be able to take a semester abroad, etc but it was made clear this would result in a 5 yr program.</p>

<p>Michael - anyone interested in the BS in Drama at Syracuse might want to double check that. I think that question came up during the last audition season and as I recall at the question and answer session at Syracuse they did say an initial entrance was possible.</p>

<p>HoosierMom - I agree that anyone interested should check with the department. Things do change. As recently as the application for Spring 2008/Fall 2008, however, the only coding for programs to be inserted in program choices on the application are for the BFA programs. Perhaps those desiring direct admission to the BS program must deal directly with the Department. See below from the program code list for Theatre:</p>

<p>Department of Drama VPD</p>

<p>Design/Technical Theater DE10BFA
Drama (Acting) DR05BFA
Musical Theater MU40BFA
Stage Management ST07BFA</p>

<p>The website for the Department of Drama and the application seem to be out of sync and are confusing. There is no code on the application to designate the BS program as the program of initial application.</p>

<p>That is strange Michael. They have a whole separate page describing the alternative BS degree in Drama and no program code.</p>