<p>That's also the way it was when my daughter applied in the fall 2006. When we questioned the department about it during a visit in the Spring 2006, we were told that the BS program really was not for initial application but instead was an alternative for those who wanted or needed to move out of one of the BFA programs. Who knows? But at any rate, as with so many of these program specific questions, the best bet is to call or visit the department and get the straight scoop directly from department reps.</p>
<p>Britbrat -- my D is currently a student at Syracuse. Her classes run from about 8:30 am - 5 pm. Rehearsals generally run from 7 - 11 on weekdays, with weekend rehearsals that last most of the day; she has been lucky enough be cast frequently, so she rarely has evenings or weekends free. The hours between 5 and 7 are the only time she has free; and that is when she does homework (which is extensive), rehearses for scene study, practices her voice, piano & monologues, occasionally goes to the gym, and-- oh yes,-- sometimes she actually eats dinner. She is also an Honors student, which enables her to take extra credits. Unfortunately, there are few extra credits which will fit into her schedule. Usually she is only able to take one Honors course each semester, and, quite frankly, she doesn't always make it to that class because of rehearsal conflicts. Each semester she has carried 18 or 19 credits.</p>
<p>I can't speak for other schools, but I'm sure this applies to most of them: the BFA program at Syracuse is extremely intense. Like yours, Britbrat, all through HS my D was involved in private dance, voice & acting, and extracurricular theater in addition to a full load of honors courses at school. This is a whole different level of committment. I suppose technically it would be possible to double-major, but I certainly would not recommend it with a BFA program. If that's really what you want, you should look into BA programs instead.</p>
<p>Regarding the BS program at Syracuse -- there seems to be some confusion about that, even among the students. My D does not know anyone who entered the BS program freshman year. From my understanding, the first two years of the BS program are the same as the BFA. It isn't until junior year that there is a differentiation. But you should definitely check directly with the department to get the facts.</p>
<p>The person we met and spoke with from the theatre department at Syracuse was Murphy. Very knowledgeable and informative about every aspect of the department, from auditioning, to "a day in the life", how juries work, to explaining how the BS program fits into the mix. She would be a great person to speak with.</p>
<p>Thank you everyone. I cannot tell you how appreciative I am for this "wealth of knowledge" that you have collectively given to me. Soozievt was the first to suggest the BA/BS combo and I respect her wisdom as I do all of yours. It sounds as if one can study for a BS in the sciences and engineering and still take classes selectively from the theatre arts dept (not necessarily to double major)so as to keep up the skills. In some of the programs mentioned, BA and BFA students cannot auditon for school productions until the second term or second year. Syracuse particulary has a fine equity theatre that anyone can audition for and if my s in insistant on pursuing his degree in environmental engineering maybe he just supplements his schedule with theatre arts classes. When looking for colleges, we are looking for fine engineering programs with quality theatre departments, so this might be the answer. Indeed extra years would be necessary to complete both and the colleges do offer it, but I think it might be best to take deep consideration before we go through all of the effort to go through double applications and auditions if indeed it does not work. Here is a clip from the U of Mich admissions website that causes for confusion when parents and students are beginning their quest:</p>
<p>Candidates for the combined Bachelor of Science in Engineering (B.S.E.) or Bachelor of Science (B.S.) and music degree (B. Mus., B.M.A., or B.F.A.) must: (a) complete one of the degree programs in the College of Engineering; (b) complete one of the degree programs in the School of Music (usually 90 credits); and (c) maintain a minimum cumulative grade point average of 2.00 and good scholastic standing in both the College of Engineering and the School of Music. It is usually possible for students electing 16-17 credits per term to meet all requirements in 11 or 12 terms. </p>
<p>I have found that what they do is merge the gen ed req so that they are not done twice and with the gen ed 90% completed on the eng side with AP credits, it can be done in 5 years with much hard work and concentration. </p>
<p>Yes, this is a strange phenomenon to think about..... a dancing, singing, engineer? I suppose their are stranger combinations, but it will ultimately be up to my s and the finances that decide. I will continue to research BA programs that are audition based, as it has been suggested that my s do that at the least.</p>
<p>As a post script, my choir director (who has many degrees including a doctorate in conducting) said that at one of the Ivy league schools, they finally created a degree for Pre-Med with a concentration on Music. There was so much demand for the the combination that they decided that it was worth a named degree for it. Interesting I thought.</p>
<p>Unless things have changed significantly since I graduated from Syracuse the only students who may take classes in the drama department are drama majors. There is an acting class for non-majors, and I believe that non-majors can audition for student directed productions, but not for mainstage departmental productions. If Syracuse Stage has local open auditions, it is likely that anyone can audition at those open calls. But I believe that now they have a more formalized understudy program, and do a musical each winter, that these opportunities may be open only to majors. Again this is worth asking the department when you visit.</p>
<p>As far as the BS option. When I was at SU (again...a fair number of years ago :)) the BFA and BS acting training were exactly the same for the first two years, it was not until junior year that the programs diverged. When I was a student at SU there where students who passed their evaluations were able to take upper level acting classes, but choose to pursue the BS because they wanted to take more classes outside of the major. This may have changed, so it is worth looking into.</p>
<p>Since this was a dance class thread :) I will add that I believe the only students who can take dance classes in the Drama Department are majors. </p>
<p>All terrific questions to ask when visiting. Summer is the best time to visit.... no snow! Have a great trip!!</p>
<p>Thank you. We are looking forward to thr experience. Having been born in England and lived in the Midwest for 30 years, I am used to the erratic cold winters. My s spent a year in Manhattan when he was 9 (going to school there)and he remembers a NYC winter so hopefully Syracuse will be ok climate adjustment wise. I will certainly formulate my list of questions regarding the difference in the programs and the possibility of being able to take dance or acting classes if you are not in the BFA program. I know that one of my sons former teachers left the school to be in a production at the equity theatre in Syracuse so I am pretty sure that it is open to anyone.</p>
<p>Usually, in most BFA programs, the courses are not open to non-majors. That is why for someone who majors in something like engineering or something else, it would be better to do that in a school where the theater program is a BA one which may be a second major, minor, or at least have courses open to non-majors. </p>
<p>Regarding dance levels and offerings....as others have mentioned earlier in this thread, this varies greatly from BFA program to BFA program in MT. At some programs, every freshman enters into the same dance classes with all other BFA in MT freshmen. At other schools, dance is by placement. For instance, at my D's school, Tisch/CAP21, within each year/grade, there are four levels for each dance discipline. So, freshmen have four levels of ballet, for example, and then sophs have four new levels of ballet for their year. Also, at some BFA in MT programs, there are just one or two dance classes per semester. At Tisch/CAP21 (and others, I'm sure), there are three dance disciplines (total of six class sessions) per semester required. </p>
<p>I can assure you that there are MANY who enter BFA in MT programs witih extensive dance backgrounds. Not all, but many. My own kid has danced her entire life in several dance disciplines many hours per week. This is not unusual. </p>
<p>Further, while there are many kids who go into BFA in MT programs who did not attend PA high schools (our state has no PA high schools), there are MANY who enter BFA programs who are used to a very full schedule of both academics and training and productions. It is just that some (like my own kid) had to get a lot of that outside the school day and setting. Also, there will be others who attended high schools like your son's HS, and so there will be kids in these programs with much training and experience. Nonetheless, it is taken to a higher level of training and intensity in college. </p>
<p>As many continue to suggest, this level of specificity is not going to be able to be answered by the admissions department. On your visits, you should line up in advance to talk to either the MT/Theater dept. head, other program administrator or faculty. They will be able to answer these types of questions, whereas admissions will not be able to do so adequately.</p>
<p>Also, regarding the Ivy League....or any school for that matter.....Pre-Med is NOT a major. Pre-Med is a list of course requirements needed to apply to med school. You can major in a non-science subject and go to med school. My D's friend who graduated NYU and was in her a capella group, majored in English but fulfilled the pre-med requirements and is now at NYU Med School. For that matter, another friend who did the BFA in MT at Tisch, also fulfilled the pre-med requirements. </p>
<p>Back to the Ivy League (or other schools of that sort).....combining a degree in music with pre-med requirements can be done at most any school. Again, what people are saying would be less workable (if even possible at all) is to combine the course heavy requirements of an engineering degree with the course heavy requirements of a BFA in MT. Both are specialized degree programs. </p>
<p>What your son could do, for example, is IF he could get into Brown (which by virtue of its very low admit rate is a reach for any candidate, no matter how qualified), he could concentrate in Engineering, but also take theater, dance and voice, as well as be in productions there. Brown is not the only school where one can do pre-med and music at all because pre-med is not a major. However, it is easier in some ways to do these things at Brown as Brown has an open currculum and that means no required courses except in one's major and so one can piece together any courses they want over four years. Come to think of it, one of my D's good friends at Brown majored in Comparative Literature and Music and also fulfilled the pre-med requirements (while also being music director for an a capella group and being on the varsity ski team). :D</p>
<p>Here's the person to try to meet with at Syracuse's Drama Dept:</p>
<p>Murphy Clark
Office Coordinator Drama Department
<a href="mailto:murphy01@syr.edu">murphy01@syr.edu</a>
Office: 820 E Genesee St Rm.
Telephone: 315-443-2669</p>
<p>She's got the answers to all your questions!</p>
<p>Regarding Syracuse Stage auditions: they hold Equity auditions in NYC. Students from the drama department also audition for the shows, and are sometimes cast in roles or as understudies. This year a sophomore MT student was cast as the Mute in the Fantasticks, and she was required to join Equity. Occasionally local non-professionals may be used in small roles (especially if children are needed), but the auditions are not generally open to non-drama or non-Equity members.</p>
<p>Fair enough. So, even though I started this thread originally about the dance levels, do any of you that are recommending a BA in MT have recommendations as this forum seems to be heavy on the BFA questions. I am open to most anything now in my research stage and as I stated previously, I am sure that my s will have a "wealth of knowledge" when he returns from BTP in 2 weeks time. I am just limited in my resources to visit too many campuses between now and the end of summer. As a refresher, he is not interested in socal schools or schools in Oklahoma, so any other suggestions of schools with strong academics and strong MT BA programs?</p>
<p>Muhlenberg has very strong academics and an excellent non-audition BA Theatre Program with the opportunity to structure the equivalent of an MT focus by taking dance and voice. Muhlenberg stages a couple of major musicals each year and has great performing spaces. There is an optional audition for talent scholarship money. It also has a professional MT summer stock company that students can audition for. I don't know if Muhlenberg has "environmental engineering" but its sciences are very strong - the school is known for pre-med and the arts.</p>
<p>Northwestern is another school with excellent academics and a very well regarded non-audition BA theater program. There is a MT concentration/certificate program that drama students can audition for after their sophomore year.</p>
<p>I believe that at Northwestern, theatre majors and vocal performance majors may audition for the musical theatre certificate program at the end of their freshman year, as well as at the end of their sophomore year.</p>
<p>I coordinate the Musical Theatre at James Madison University. It is a BA program. I do not know how possible it would be to dual degree in the Musical Theatre Concentration and Engineering, but I would be happy to explore this if you would like. We do have students who double major, but usually both are BA degrees. PM me if you would like for me to look into this for you.</p>
<p>The thing about Muhlenberg is that while I happen to think it is a great BA option for a MT student, the OP's son wants to combine with engineering and the 'berg doesn't have engineering. However, in my opinion, one option her son should explore is a double major in Environmental Science and Theater (two BAs) and he COULD do THAT at Muhlenberg. </p>
<p>If he wants to combine engineering with theater...he may wish to look at schools like Northwestern, Tufts, Brown, and many others that offer both.</p>
<p>Elon offers a 3 yr Environmental Engineering degree: </p>
<p>Elon</a> University - Dual-Degree Engineering</p>
<p>They also offer a BA in Theatre Studies and minor in theatre arts and dance: </p>
<p>Elon</a> University - Department of Performing Arts</p>
<p>I don't know about performance opportunities, etc but maybe it would be one that you would want to check out or someone on here would have more comment about</p>
<p>Also this should be an interesting link for you. The top Engineering Schools worldwide. As you can see many of the schools on top are listed there - Northwestern, PSU, Univ of Colorado, etc. It might be a good cross matching guide. </p>
<p>World</a> Science & Engineering University Portal: World University Rankings 2007</p>
<p>Elon may be a good option. My only reservation is that in general, I might hesitate to study theater in a BA program where there is ALSO a BFA program (though Indiana is one exception I'd make). I think studying theater in a BA program where there is not ALSO a BFA, allows the BA students to not be "second fiddle", to take any of the theater classes and to not compete for casting with the BA students. I feel that a BA theater kid may be more disappointed in a BA where there is a BFA program compared to where the BA theater program IS the program itself.</p>
<p>That is why for this particular boy who wants engineering, I'd look into schools like Tufts, Yale, Northwestern, Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, U of Penn, WashU of St. Louis, and so on where he could do engineering and where there are also good theater opportunities. Of course, getting into these schools is very difficult.</p>
<p>Some others might be UVA, UC-Santa Barbara, U of Colorado, Lehigh, Vanderbilt, UC-Irvine, U of Delaware, Northeastern (Northeastern actually has a MT Minor).</p>
<p>Great ideas again. Thanks so much. Penn state is in the top 3 on our radar. It is one that we are visiting next month. I finally caught up with an OCHSA mom and visited with her extensively yesterday. It was great to add her personal experiences with her d to all of yours and your suggestions. Her d applied to 14 colleges with MT programs (many, many auditions....yikes) and was accepted to 10. She is attending NYU's Cap 21 next year where soozievt's d is. It was good to hear how successful the process had been for her and many of the other students at her school. 6 to NYU from 1 school seems like a lot (from a graduating class of 62 MT students), so that gives me hope that we will find a program that fits. We do have 1 student going to Elon next year for the BFA, so I will try and track her down for imput as well. Onward and upward to the research :)</p>
<p>Please realize that when I mentioned Penn in my post, I was referring to University of Pennsylvania, an Ivy League school, not Penn State. Penn State has a BFA in MT and Penn (the nickname for U of Pennsylvania) doesn't. Both have engineering. However, many of us are doubting you could combine the BFA in MT with engineering at Penn State. Therefore, I was suggesting Penn for engineering where he could also be involved in the BA in Theater. My D has a MT friend who chose U of Pennsylvania (wasn't applying to BFAs at all) for theater. She is in musicals there. Penn is WAY harder to get into than Penn State overall. However, Penn State's BFA in MT program itself is very hard to get into and accepts 5% or fewer. </p>
<p>I think your son's first step is deciding on the TYPE of degree program he wants. His list of schools will then follow. </p>
<p>Yes, there are a lot of kids from OCHSA at Tisch and my D is friends with several (some have already graduated).</p>