ACT question

[lhw1998]

Okay, so I just got my ACT back and I got Yale’s average (33). I don’t really want to retake it, but I need to make sure it won’t hurt my chances too much.
35 E, 34 M, 34 R, and 30 S.
Will the 30 science section hurt if I want to go into a STEM field? I’m sure that I could bring it up to around a 34 if need be, but I don’t know if Yale would even care.
Thanks!

[MedSciBud]

@lhw1998 - not knowing your other stats / background - all I can think of are what you’ve already stated. 33C is in the mid 50% and a science 30 is probably low for STEM. Remember, Yale receives well over 30k applicants, several of them will have similar or better stats.

[lhw1998]

@MedSciBud I’m not bad at actual science, I just really suck at ACT science. I got an 800 on the chemistry SAT and a 5 on the AP chem exam. And yeah, I’m not trying to stand out (because that’s practically impossible at this point for me), I’m just trying to make sure that my score won’t raise any eyebrows

[MedSciBud]

@lhw1998 - IMHO - if you have the opportunity and ability to take it again and raise it to 34S (which will take you to 34C), I think you should consider doing that. And if you can grab one more point in any of the others, you will have a 35C. Again, remember, ACT is just one portion of your application, so take my suggestion fwiw.

[Jpgranier]

The science section is not real science. It is the comprehension of graphs and numbers in a short period of time.

In other words, the science section is speed reading.

Attempting the test again for a higher composite score is one thing, but to get your science score up is another.

The general consensus from most schools is that english and math are the most important sections. I’d take your 35 E and 30 S over 30 E and 35 S any day of the week.

To summarize: Take the test in order to get a higher composite score, if need be, not because the ‘science’ section is not high enough.

[gibby]

I have a contrarian view, which I’ve previously posted.

Colleges use test scores to gauge how you well you would do if admitted to their school. The higher your score, the less an Admissions Directors will question if you can handle the work load on their campus. However, once your test scores reach a certain threshold (about 2200 SAT or a 33 ACT), having a higher test score DOES NOT increase your chances. That’s because other more subjective factors such as your teacher recommendations, EC’s and essays reveal MORE about your “character” than your test score.

At colleges like Yale, which receive 30,000+ applications, Admissions Directors have about 12 minutes to read a file, which includes looking at your test scores, transcript, course rigor, looking over your EC’s, reading your high school profile, guidance counselor’s Secondary School Report, teacher recommendations, interview report and essays – and then making notes. Admissions Directors probably spend less than 5 seconds looking at your test scores, yet, student’s spend so much time focusing on their test scores, thinking that higher scores will increase their chances.

When my daughter and son received their acceptance letters three and four years ago, there were handwritten notes from Admissions Directors on them saying “Welcome! Congratulations! We hope you say yes!” In addition, there were specific personal comments all having to do with their essays. Comments such as “Loved your essay about your baseball coach.Your application was such a joy to present to the committee; after reading your essay, the vote was unanimous!”

Not one comment said “Wonderful test scores, welcome aboard” In fact, in all my years on CC, I have NEVER, EVER heard of an Admissions Director from any college make that kind of comment. Test scores matter, but at a certain point they don’t matter!

Bottom line: If you are applying in this applications cycle (for acceptance in the fall of 2017), I would not retake the ACT, but instead focus the next 6-7 weeks on your essays, as that will have a greater impact on your acceptance than an increased test score.

[Jpgranier]

@gibby I remember reading a statistic saying a 36 has double the chance of being accepted than a 34. Of course, there may be other factors involved such as someone being able to score higher also being able to take more difficult courses etc…

[gibby]

^^ @Jpgranier: Please point me to an article or research report that verifies that a student with a 36 ACT has double the chances of being admitted than a student with a 34. In more than 6 years on College Confidential, I’ve never seen or read that kind of research before because I believe it does not exist.

FWIW: Students with perfect ACT scores get rejected all the time. To wit: my son had a 36 ACT and while he was accepted to Yale, he was rejected from Harvard. My daughter, on the other hand, had a 34 ACT and was accepted to Harvard, but rejected from Yale. As I said, test scores matter, but at a certain point they don’t matter – that’s when subjective factors and institutional preferences come into play. And those factors are completely out of an applicant’s control no matter what their test score.

[Jpgranier]

@gibby can’t find the exact article because it was a few months ago.

The exact numbers were based on a few ivy league schools (I believe specifically one of them was Brown) that released research data on individual score acceptance rates.

Here is brown’s: https://www.brown.edu/admission/undergraduate/explore/admission-facts#distribution

Students with a 36 acceptance rate: 28%
Students with 33-35 acceptance rate: 11%

[gibby]

^^ @Jpgranier: Yes, I’ve seen that information from Brown before, but you can’t use it to predict a student’s chances. For example, a student with a 36 ACT might be able to write a better, more thought provoking, essay than a student with a 33-35. Or, a student with a 36 ACT may have had better teacher recommendations or interview reports. Or, as you pointed out, a student with a 36 ACT may have taken a more rigorous course load. A test score is just one factor – and not a big factor – in the applications process. This from Jeffrey Brenzel, Yale’s recently retired Admissions Director on the College Board website: https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/get-in/testing/the-real-role-of-tests-in-your-college-application

Students, when we’re on the road, we often play a little kind of quiz show game with students, asking what they think is the most important part of the application. Many, many students respond, “Well, the testing must be the most important.”** It’s actually one of the less important elements in the file.** The testing can give you a sense of what schools are within your range, and it gives the school a sense of what students in the applicant pool are within their range. The most important part of your application — bar none, no question, any college — is your high school transcript. Probably the next most important are your teacher recommendations, particularly if you’re applying to any kind of selective college or university.

Bottom Line: Students need to trust and believe what college experts and Admissions Directors are telling them on websites this one. After all, they are not trying to hoodwink you by presenting false information!

[Jpgranier]

Yeah, I completely agree that just the score doesn’t do much. I was just trying to point out an interesting fact from an ivy league school.

I do believe, however, a high score will only help, not hurt. No matter how minute of an effect.