<p>This discussion is relevant to my son's situation, so rather than creating a new thread I'll just ask here.</p>
<p>DS is a junior and will be applying to highly competitive schools in the fall, some of which require SAT IIs. So far he has a 740 (World History) and a 780 (Math 2) and will be taking two more SAT IIs this coming Saturday.</p>
<p>He took the SAT in December and scored a 2230. He took the ACT in April and got a 35.</p>
<p>His 35 trumps his 2230, but schools will see the 2230 along with the SAT II scores.</p>
<p>Still, we see no reason to retake the SAT. Is that right?</p>
<p>Correct, sherpa. No reason at all to retake the SAT I. The common wisdom is that colleges will disregard that SAT I score and rely on your son's outstanding ACT score. </p>
<p>This is why I like the idea of taking the ACT first. If student scores well, there's no need to take the SAT I at all (except to confirm PSAT scores for NMF, but that can be done in Nov or Dec of senior year). But once you take the SAT I, colleges automatically receive the SAT I scores along with any required SAT II scores.</p>
<p>Well, thanks for that input! It wasn't exactly what I'd expected (after reading about so many 'high achieving/do it all/do more" students on CC...!). </p>
<p>The thing is -- son is fairly good at standardized tests (ACT score breakdown -- all between 33-36). He's pretty much absolutely refused to participate in school extra-curriculars, however. (and, after a few years of bugging him about it--I've become resigned & even started wondering---how does being in the school choir/newspaper/charity group/etc. really indicate that you will excel at the rigorous academic work of a college? Are you going to college to be a (e.g.) computer programer or to be a 'fun club member?' But, best not to think about that too much...).</p>
<p>As to gpa -- it's (unfortunately) an UW 3.0 because of 9th/10th year grades (& no upward trend w/in those 2 years, either). He's at almost straight As this entire year, but he's also bailed out the all-honors track this year (kept 2 AP courses, though). </p>
<p>So...looking to maximize things that are controllable. Grades from 9th & 10th are completely past history. Son's extra-curricular involvement is something I in good conscience cannot force (it's ultimately his decision & he has been staunch in his refusal of everything [except one group] for 3 yrs).</p>
<p>So...he's somewhat amenable to taking tests (is going to do 2 SAT IIs (& the corresponding APs) this spring/fall). He might do the SAT again if there was some benefit (though he wouldn't enjoy it!). </p>
<p>We realize gpa/no ECs will limit to an exent (not looking at top tier) but also want to make the most of his strengths....</p>
<p>Jolynne,
It is unfortunate that your son's GPA is so low, and will definitely keep him out of top tier schools (as would probably the lack of significant ECs...)</p>
<p>The one exception might be Reed college - not for everyone, but certainly "top" school. They got more competitive in recent years, but a few years ago they had a reputation of a college that is willing to give "bright slacker" a second chance.</p>
<p>I don't think that retaking SAT I will make any difference for your son's admissions. If he has absolutely nothing better to do on Sat morning (including sleep), he can go ahead and take it - it won't hurt...</p>
<p>Is there anything he enjoys doing outside of school ECs? Sports, music, art, computer programming, anything at all? He does not have to be in any school clubs, but it would be good to have some sort of interest he could pursue...</p>
<p>SAT IIs are a good idea, even if the schools he applies to do not require them, as high scores on those will somewhat make up for the low GPA.</p>
<p>yes, you are correct. The scores your son already has are high enough to be competitive at any school. At this point it is the rest of his application that will make a difference between acceptance and rejection.</p>
<p>Son does have a musical interest (non-school-related), does a bit of volunteer work (a few hours a week) and is teaching himself a computer language (Java) on his own. </p>
<p>Not the huge list of ECs many kids have; but he wants to do only what interests him. </p>
<p>Glad to hear the validation for the SAT IIs -- he's signed up for US History this spring & Math I (maybe II?) in the fall.</p>
<p>to the OP - from what you describe, your s has a somewhat imbalanced application -- very high test scores, ok gpa, no ec's.
improving the test score will not fix that imbalance.</p>
<p>better, i think, to focus on finding schools that will value those test scores and also for your s to think as to how best to present himself in his applications -- ec's do not necessarily define a person -- he must have some interests, something about himself that while not inspiring any ec's, will help give the school a fuller picture of who he is as a person. and look for schools that will value what makes him the person he is.</p>
<p>Per the OP's last post:
Wait--this is not a student without EC's. He does not have a smorgasbord of individual EC's, but aren't we all told all the time that focus and passion are what matter. He has focused on what matters to him.</p>
<p>Because these ECs do not fit into the school club context, presentation is key. If one or more of the writers of his recs will be able to mention, say, the self taught Java, so much the better.</p>
<p>And, at least one of his essays could references to something pivotal or informing that came from the pursuit of one of these ECs.</p>
<p>mafool--that's what son & I discussed. He's already asked for rec from comp programming teacher (wants to major in comp sci) so to be ready for our main state U's rolling admission (which begins in..I think..August). Another rec request will go to a 2nd computer related teacher.</p>
<p>Don't want to post too much identifying info re: son, but his musical instrument is one that's usually found in a rock 'n roll band. So...not sure how to package that interest to a college. I had the (vain) hope that he might go to a nursing home & serendade the patients as a public service (and all-around nice thing to do). No go; absolutely, unequivocally. lol. He likes to play, though and is getting good. </p>
<p>In the end -- after all my nagging -- I really feel he deserves some credit for charting his own path, and not compliantly following mom's suggestions to the T (although we'll see how the college app process goes...).</p>
<p>Jolynne,
does he just play by himself at home? some kids form all kinds of music groups with friends, and play at "Battle of the Bands", get gigs at local venues, or just play by themselves. </p>
<p>I also have one of those who refuses to do anything she does not enjoy every second doing... especially if it can be in any way perceived as "resume building" - so no NHS, Mu Alpha Teta, or anything like that... Thankfully, our college application process is over!.. (worked out fine for her at the end ;))</p>
<p>Jolynne, what are his summer plans? Doing something in an area of interest, more with music, more with programming may be the way to go. I don't think it's important that the ECs be done at school, but it's good if they tell a story. Since he likes computers would he be interested in playing with music composition programs? My younger son got introduced to Garage Band when he was in a music camp last summer.</p>
<p>Jolynne-- you have been given lots of good advice here but let me add as the mother of a son who also tested higher on SATs than his gpa showed, please have your S look at larger university-type schools where SAT is a more critical component of acceptance than at LACs. If you look at the Common Data Set for the schools he is interested in, you will see how they rank certain factor such as GPA/ EC's/SAT or ACT scores, etc. Some are ranked higher in importance than others and it varies from school to school.</p>
<p>Also, if your son volunteers just a few hours a week now, could he bump that up or be persuaded to do a unique project for his volunteer organization that will add some value to his life as well as some interest to his resume? I do think colleges want to see some passion and commitment to whatever ECs a child decides to pursue. </p>
<p>Please take this not from a professional in any way but just from a mother who has a son who sounds a bit like yours.</p>
<p>nngmm mom--son plays casually w/a few friends in their basements or ours. Again, nothing you could 'package' for a college -- but maybe I'll ask his music teacher for some ideas/suggestions (son might like those).</p>
<p>mathmom--his summer plans so far are working (lawn mowing, etc.) and spending some time studying more Java (as well as hanging w/friends!). I'll check out Garage Band--thanks a lot, never heard of that one! Btw, I've tried to encourage camps that might have some 'reportable value' (academic, public service) -- again, nada, nope, won't do it. :-)</p>
<p>acme--that's interesting. And, it sort of validates my original thought -- if he's good at standardized tests, why not just go for it --- there might be some schools out there who will appreciate it (while obviously aware that test stats aren't the be-all, end-all). </p>
<p>That makes me think maybe he should do the SAT again. I'll just swear not to bug him to study. :-) Can you tell it's hard for me to give this up (lol)? I guess maybe because the kid got a 660/640 v/m on the SAT in 8th grade!!</p>
<p>if he takes the sat again, just for the heck of it, without additional studying, be prepared for the possibility that his scores could go down. then you will probably worry about whether to send sat scores which otherwise will show a really fine sat 1 score and some great sat 2 scores? if you then post that question here, you'll probably be told that schools will look at the higher sat 1 so don't worry. but you are already been told that schools will look at the higher of the act or sat - and you don't want to believe that. </p>
<p>so in other words, taking the sat 1 again without any real reason to believe your s will go up the amount he'd need to in order to best his act score, may well lead you to another situation where you don't feel comfortable listening to what you are told the colleges supposedly will do.</p>
<p>there's an expression -- the enemy of good is better.</p>
<p>So if his SAT goes down that won't look good to colleges? That's useful info. I guess every SAT score is automatically sent, then? </p>
<p>I suppose that would be the final nail in the coffin of SAT! :-) </p>
<p>Son would be happier to just focus on other stuff, I'm sure.</p>
<p>We've just got that $73 collegeboard online SAT subscription to unload, then....</p>
<p>Thanks for the input. All these posts have really helped clarify my thinking (not only about test scores) and will have a beneficial impact on son's next few months.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So if his SAT goes down that won't look good to colleges?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>i didn't say that -- i just asked if that was something you wanted to worry about. most colleges claim to look at the best sat1 - many say they look at the best composite score. but most also say they'll take the best of the act vs. sat also.</p>
<p>Sorry to be remedial---so, you can't pick/chose which SAT scores to send? And, I guess they send all the SAT IIs, as well? Appreciate the insights...</p>
<p>Finally figured out a plan re: this whole thing. Will put the SAT on ice this spring (if son agrees--he'll decide, ultimately). Then, in the fall if he still feels like it, he can review just a bit & give it one more go (if he likes).</p>
<p>Thanks so much for all the great insights and ideas here! Really helped!</p>