<p>D toured and interviewed at s BS yesterday. While D was meeting w/ one adcom, I went to the cafeteria for coffer. While there I saw and approached a group of black students and asked them about their experience at the school. A diff adcom observed this, called me over (while someone else shooed away the students) and then told me that she would be happy to bring students into the office to meet with me.</p>
<p>I declined the offer b/c I didn't want to speak to hand-picked students; nor did I want adcoms hovering. Also, I thought the purpose of the on-site visit was to get a first-hand view of the sch and to speak to students.</p>
<p>D like the school and she established rapaport w/ adcom1, the interviewer, but my interaction w/ adcom2 soured me on the sch. </p>
<p>That’s bizarre, that’s not right. I always asked random students questions when visiting schools. The admin people at S school jokingly and openly admit their nervousness because they never know what the students are going to say. Besides, one can’t stand around alone for 1 minute without some one asking if they need help. I say, do it at your next tour, see what transpires.</p>
<p>You and your daughter are black and the school is mostly white so you wanted to talk to the black kids and they shooed them away? That’s very weird. Maybe you should talk to adcom #1 about that incident. When I visited a private school many years ago in 8th grade, a teacher was really rude to my mom…but the admissions director was absolutely embarassed and we later found out that teacher was just crazy. So if everything else was good, don’t dismiss the school.</p>
<p>What are they afraid of? Are they hiding something? What if your D went there and then discovered something negative enough to make her want to leave? It seem irresponsible on the school’s part if that’s the case.</p>
<p>I always pay attention to signs as I think they happen for a reason and I try to tune into them and trust my gut instinct. If you were uncomfortable on the tour, how comfortable will you be leaving your D there?</p>
<p>For the same reason that it’s unwise to let a good rapport with an AdCom sway your decision – as that person is probably going to have little to no interaction with your child while there – I would urge you not to let that experience keep you from ruling out a school that might otherwise be a great fit. If the school gets eliminated for other, substantive reasons, or a “gut feeling” that relates to people D will be interacting with as a student, then fine. But I’d try to divorce AdCom personality – for better or for worse – from the larger decision about whether this school is a good fit.</p>
<p>I agree with the consensus here that what happened was weird. BUT…maybe (if I can grasp for explanations) the students had classes or other appointments to get to and the school doesn’t want parents buttonholing students in an unstructured environment where a student might feel an obligation to be courteous while possibly being late for school appointments. It’s possible that AdCom2 was inartfully shielding the students from you (not personally, but as a generic visitor) as opposed to shielding you from dirty laundry. Having students come in to talk to you in a structured setting makes sense. The students are there to be students. If there’s some intentional program where a student is participating in some ambassador capacity, fine. But maybe you came upon some new students or maybe there’s a rule that protects new students by general application even though you might have encountered some seniors. I can see a school not wanting every parent who comes onto campus being able to pull aside any student and bend their ear or have them answer questions. It’s an imposition on the students and I can see a school trying to limit that – without any sinister or manipulative purpose.</p>
<p>I still think it’s weird, the way you describe it, but I can see some sort of innocent – if not laudable – policy that was in place and it was just executed poorly.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t have been as concerned if the comment had come from a teacher - - but this was another adcom. And she clearly didn’t mind me talking to black students – so long as they were the ones she selected and w/i earshot of admissions staff.</p>
<p>D’yer,</p>
<p>Hard to get a gut or other feeling w/o free interaction w/ the students. As I stated in OP, oppty for unscripted contact w/ the students is one of the primary reasons we visit and is often the basis for determining fit/comfort. </p>
<p>Also, I didn’t “button hole” students en route to class; I approached a group in the lunchroom during lunch period, told them my daughter was being interviewed and aked whether they had a few minutes to talk to me about their experience at the school - - as Ihave done, w/o incident, at other schs.. And these are hs students, not 2nd graders, so I don’t see a compelling need to be “shielded” from prospect families. </p>
<p>Finally, while I agree that one must resist the impulse to base decisions on rapport w/ the adcom, etc - - in reality, the impressions we get when touring, even if inaccurate, are the only first-hand info we have as prospects. I have to assume that shcs understand that the prospect family’s first impression may be it’s only impression before deciding whether to apply and if accepted, that initial visit, may be the basis upon which a family w/ ltd time and $ decided whether to attend the shcs yield event in the spring.</p>
<p>Unscripted is one thing, but having all students available to you – even in the lunch room – is something I can see a school not wanting to open up. Multiply that by the number of families passing through, and having it all take place during the academic day, and that’s a big disruption from the primary mission of the school. Selecting students who are available to you doesn’t mean that it’s scripted.</p>
<p>Anyway, you asked so I’m just trying to respond to a situation where you expressed some uncertainty about how to react. If you’re committed to the opinion that there’s no satisfactory explanation and no choice but to act on this event, I’m not here to argue a point. These are all personal decisions that are right for the people who make them because that’s their prerogative. I would only suggest that someone who took a more forgiving view of those events would be just as correct for doing so.</p>
<p>If you otherwise like the school, call the admissions head and tell him/her you’re concerned because you wanted to speak to real kids and they brought in the Stepford kids! Let them at least try to explain why.</p>
<p>Adcom at one BS suggested that we (Mom, Dad, Son) should walk around a bit and stop by the dining hall for lunch (unescorted) after we were done with our interviews.</p>
<p>If your spidey sense was tingling, I would listen to it. It’s not only the second admissions officer breaking up the conversation, but it’s the other adult, in your words, “shooing away” the students. That sounds to me like an overt attempt to control the information you receive. </p>
<p>It may be nothing. It may only be an overeager admissions officer trying to guarantee a “perfect visit.” One of the students who were shooed away might be a known smart alec, whose sense of humor scares away prospective families. Or, in the worst case, there might be a serious problem on campus which they don’t want to reveal.</p>
<p>Of course that’s the issue - - evid of a problem or not? The shooing away did seem a bit much, even if one of the kids was smart a** (like I don’t see/get that at home every day). And the “offer” to bring students to the admissions office - - even if adcom picked the students, why not let us chat elsewhere.</p>
<p>And, even absent sinsiter intent/purpose, is the “shielding” evid of a more protective and conservative enviorn than I want for D?</p>
<p>Again difficult to get a handle on a sch when all you get to do on campus is watch kids move from one class to another.</p>
<p>While I understand that this situation could make someone uncomfortable especially if the reasons for not allowing you to speak with kids was not explained in any way, I have to agree with Dyer that one of the possible reasons for the adcom to have behaved in such a manner was so that kids could go on with their normal day, etc. As a parent of two kids away at school, I often wonder just how disruptive it can be on a daily basis when a student is trying to learn and live a normal school life and hundreds of prospective parents and kids are always looking into classroom windows, stopping to ask you how you like the school, etc. One might also consider the aspect of privacy. While questions might seem benign to us, kids may be polite, but not always want to be questioned even if it is only at lunch. I learned a great deal about every school we visited just by simply quietly observing everywhere we went. I was able to get a real sense of a place by watching how kids interacted, if they seemed happy or stressed, quiet, subdued or joyful and comfortable. I can’t imagine any kid giving a negative response to a question about their school anyway, so how much are you really going to learn by questioning anyone outside of who the school wants you to meet? </p>
<p>When someone makes you uncomfortable, you might just nicely ask or comment on how they are making you feel. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but I wouldn’t write off a place without a second look if your child liked it. Just my two cents.</p>
<p>At a recent parochial sch fair students did make comments that I’m certain the students considered benign but which the admin would have considered unflattering and which were part of my decision not to have D apply to religious schs, so I have found speaking to students to be helpful.</p>
<p>And, while I did get a sense of the sch (stressed/ subdued, etc.) I just wanted to know more. Also, after having visited BSs w/ D2 5 yrs ago and now repeating the process w/ D3, this incident stands out - - especially for a black family. Adcoms tend to go out of ther way to see that urm families have an oppty to interact w/ urm students (at this sch D’s guide wasn’t even a boarder!) since that IS a group w/ which the urm candidate is likely to have extensive contact, should s/he enroll. Certainly if there was some sch “rule” regarding talking to sch, the adcom stated none.</p>
<p>Signif, when, on other threads, I have posted that black enrollment of X% is a threshold issue for my family, parents often respond that despite lower numbers, the urm students at their respective schs are happy, involved, etc. Well, the lunchroom was the one time I saw a group of black students outside the classroom. And since we couldn’t stay through the academ day and see after sch activities (we do have lives beyond applying to BS) there would be no oppty to observe more casual/social interaction, so I asked questions. </p>
<p>As I reflect/write on the incident, I find it more troubling. As I state earlier, the incident soured me on the sch, but I haven’t written the sch off. If D is admitted, I will certainly broach the matter w/ the admissions office - - at that point, if I do not get a satisfactory response, I will, understandably, cross the sch off D’s list.</p>
<p>I tend to agree with D’yer. My kids have had nothing to do with the admissions office in any of their schools once accepted. Absolutely nothing. I would sit tight and once the acceptances are out, if this school is a top choice of your child, you may want to bring this up with the headmaster or other part of the administration. </p>
<p>There are some schools where the security is very tight, and they do not want folks walking around unescorted and approaching the students anywhere. If you want to talk to a random child or group, it may be policy to have the talk privately in a designated space. You don’t know who those kids might be or what may have happened at the school. I know at our school, you cannot just randomly sit in on a class anytime you want. You have to make prior arrangements. And you are not permitted to go hunting for your child in the school; you have to go to the front office and check in there. They do not want adults wandering around the school, even parents who have been around for many years. It’s to keep the rules consistent. </p>
<p>However, I do agree, that the way this was handled would make me uncomfortable. The adcom should have offered a designated spot for you to talk to those kids if they were free. And offered you a policy explanation.</p>