Adcom wouldn't let me to talk to "random" students - only those she brought to office

Prep School Admissions
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<p>“I would sit tight and once the acceptances are out, if this school is a top choice of your child, you may want to bring this up with the headmaster or other part of the administration.” - - Already said that was my plan.</p>

<p>“However, I do agree, that the way this was handled would make me uncomfortable. The adcom should have offered a designated spot for you to talk to those kids if they were free. And offered you a policy explanation.” </p>

<p>^^
My point precisely - - a designated spot w/o adcoms hovering would have been fine and I would have very much appreciated an explanation of the schs policy (if one exists) regarding chats w/ students.</p>

<p>Again, I’m not saying there’s anythig sinister going on, but perhaps the policy suggests a sch that is too conserv/rigid for us. Also the absence of any explanation raises questions re: responsiveness in general.</p>

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<p>If your child is admitted, go to the admitted student visiting program. This typically involves the kid spending a day as a student, without parents or ad com people hovering, going to class, eating lunch, and hanging out with current students. It would be just about impossible for the ad com to control who your daughter talks to, unless it is only a couple of kids they are worried about, and the ad com can figure out how to keep them away. </p>

<p>So, strange incident, but your daughter will have ample opportunity to get to know the feel of the place. If she has particular academic or extracurricular interests, she should seek out by email students with similar interests. Heads of clubs, captains and starters on teams, etc. This will be an unselected group, and even brief communication will get at the truth. Teenagers are so scrupulously honest about their feelings that it must torture any adult who wants to control the message.</p>

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<p>Yes, if D attends re-visit day she will have an oppty to meet w/ students,but no oppty for me to get info I want, before deciding whether to invest in a 2nd trip. </p>

<p>Fortunately, there are enough schs where we had a good experience that whether or not this sch stays on the list is no big deal (thus my unwillingness to re-visit absent a satisfact response from admissions).</p>

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<p>If you are interested in this school, I think it is important to ascertain if this is standard policy at this school, or if your family were the only family to be so treated. I suggest a couple of approaches, which could allay your fears, or confirm them.</p>

<p>1) Ask the school for the names of the parents of urm students, who have agreed to represent the school. Yes, you will be talking with boosters, but if their children are unhappy at the school, the chances are great that the parents will be honest. You can also ask if those parents were allowed to chat with students at lunch, or if the only contact allowed was strictly controlled.</p>

<p>2) Search on this board for parents who have visited this school. Ask if they were also only allowed to speak with students with the cooperation of an admissions officer.</p>

<p>3) Should your child be admitted to this school, attend the revisit. Garrity made a very good point in March of this year: “To those students accepted: Congratulations! Just a note to encourage all of you to attend the revisit days for each school which you are seriously considering attending. It is fun, informative and you get to meet your potential future classmates who, for the most part, will also have multiple choices of private schools. Attending one school’s revisit can yield enlightening info. about the other schools on your accepted or waitlisted list. For example,a few years ago several boarding schools within a few hours drive of New York City that also accepted day students were experiencing drug issues. Parents will orally share this type of info. with other parents in person while reluctant to do so elsewhere in other forums. Also info. on other matters is shared such as hazing or administrative turmoil as well as a lot of positive information. Go to as many revisits as you can because it is a wonderful social and learning experience.” (<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/309947-anyone-actually-get-accepted.html?highlight=garrity[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/309947-anyone-actually-get-accepted.html?highlight=garrity&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>Sorry, I haven’t figured out how to make links.</p>

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<p>This has come up before in other contexts and I think the same advice applies here if there’s a lesson to be gleaned from this at all. </p>

<p>If a parent or applicant has special needs for their tour and there are certain people they’d like to meet, then make arrangements beforehand. It came up earlier this week regarding religious affiliation: plan ahead, take control before showing up, and accomplish any objectives you have by design, not by chance. Same goes for meeting with other individuals or groups (i.e., at one school we sat in for a choir rehearsal and mingled with students afterwards, all by planning ahead).</p>

<p>If those students weren’t in the cafeteria at that time, then the opportunity to have that desired Parent-URM Student conversation wouldn’t have occurred – except that there’d be no weird AdCom intervening. If candid contact between the parent and URM students is critical, don’t hope for a cafeteria encounter to materialize. To blame this missing component of the tour on the AdCom is only part of the explanation. The fact that that opportunity existed in the first place was pure serendipity. It’s not entirely the school’s fault because, without planning or requesting that sort of interaction ahead of time, there should have been no expectation that such a conversation would have occurred. That expectation arose only by chance and, yes, it was quickly swept away by an apparently odd development – but what was the investment made in having that conversation carry on? None. </p>

<p>What if the students had to get to their next class right away? What if they don’t sit together at lunch as they did that day? What if their lunch period hadn’t coincided with the family’s tour/interview schedule? Lots of things came together by chance for that opportunity to arise. The fact that an AdCom was the reason it all didn’t come to fruition is simply not the reason that there was no parent-URM conversation that day.</p>

<p>There are a number of threads in this forum where we’ve discussed the need to set up meetings in advance of the interview with coaches or teachers in certain academic areas, or arts instructors. If getting together with a group of URM students is important, the same basic advice applies: go about it intentionally and take steps to ensure that it happens.</p>

<p>If this was a math department chair or lacrosse coach or financial aid guru instead of a group of African-American students and the applicant went up to that person in the cafeteria only to be separated from the applicant by a quirky AdCom staffer, it would be easier to understand that – at the end of the day – the discussion didn’t take place with the chair/coach/guru because it wasn’t planned or arranged ahead of time. It was left to chance. A chance arose…and evaporated too quickly.</p>

<p>It was still weird and probably handled poorly. But if the disappointment being expressed now is that critical conversations didn’t take place during the tour/interview, I don’t think the school is to blame for that. If the school had rebuffed advance efforts to organize such a meeting, then (a) that would probably be weird; and (b) we’d probably know their reasons instead of speculating because it would be dealt with intentionally and not on an ad hoc basis.</p>

<p>I’m on board that this was handled awkwardly. I think, if you ask, then you deserve an explanation about what happened and why it happened. And even though I think there are plausible reasons that explain what happened, I agree that there are some inexcusable reasons that could explain what happened. I have to get off the bus at the point where the school – or even an inept AdCom – is at fault for the fact that a critical conversation didn’t take place that day.</p>

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<p>I understand the admissions officer’s actions. Students are busy and stressed and most likely do not have any time to talk to you, and possibly don’t want to be asked such personal questions by a stranger who approached them in the dining hall. If someone came up to me while I was eating and asked me questions about my experience, I would feel obliged to share with the prospective student. But I’m busy, and that question asked by a stranger would make me uncomfortable. There are tour guides and others who signed up to be asked questions – kids who set aside time each week to answer questions, etc.</p>

<p>-We’re stressed, busy.
-Our momentary opinions may not be representative of an entire minority group’s experience.</p>

<p>And: I doubt the school is actively hiding something.</p>

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<p>I think part of the confusion may stem from your understanding “I thought the purpose of the on-site visit was to get a first-hand view of the sch and to speak to students.”</p>

<p>This does not exactly square with our experience. Over the years, we have visited many schools, day and boarding, and in every case I can think of, we have been asked to visit for a “tour and interview.” As both a visitor to and a parent of students at such schools, I never have viewed these visits as an open opportunity to investigate things or approach people on my own, but more of a train ride through the school, escorted usually by a student guide, with a meeting in admissions and in some cases with other people we have requested to meet. You’re looking out of the windows and talking with people who have agreed to be part of the tour more than mingling with the townsfolk. We have never approached students other than for directions. If before or after your visit you want to speak to someone or a category of person at the school, contact admissions and ask. If you call and say we would like to speak to a family of our ethnic group, or geography, or child who does x, I think they would be understanding and helpful.</p>

<p>Schools must have current students as their first priority. They don’t have physical gates around them, but more of a virtual buffer. I really would not want an adult stranger approaching my child at school and asking questions, nor would I want their classes interupted by visitors on a regular basis. I realize you are a prospective school parent, but would you want a stranger walking up to your daughter on the street and asking her questions about her experience living where she lives? I wouldn’t. The kids at these schools see lots of visitors, but generally do not go up to them, unless it’s someone they know. I think the same applies from the other direction, especially adults to kids. </p>

<p>I agree that the adcom handled your situation awkwardly, but probably because it was an unusual one for him/her. I would not read any ill will into it. The adcom was probably just making sure you were talking to kids who wanted to talk to visitors and were actually free for a while, in an appropriate place for all. I think this is a school looking out for its students. Isn’t that what you want?</p>

<p>Some schools may welcome, even encourage your mixing with random students. That’s great, but generally I think this is when your child is with you. At most schools, the broader mixing takes place at the revisits for admitted students, when everyone is “on.”</p>

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<p>I agree with the comments made above by inquiring mind. </p>

<p>I think the revisit is a better time to do the type of questioning NYC has outlined.</p>

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<p>What a difference a week makes!</p>

<p>When I started this thread, D’s scores and Qi grades were an unkn. The numbers have arrived and they are good. </p>

<p>The reality is, that w/ lots of schs and limited time any misstep can result ina sch beind dropped to the bottom of our list or being bumped off entirely. And, w/o a pressing need to keep schs in play, I have less of a need to “resolve” this issue. Time permitting, she’ll complete the app; if not their loss.</p>

<p>Hey, you never get a 2nd chance to make a 1st impression. </p>

<hr>

<p>InquirMind: I would never advocate a stranger approaching/questioning a child on the street nor interrupting classes - - but I don’t see what either of those scenarios has to do with an invited guest and prospective parent chatting w/ student in the lunchroom.</p>

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<p>I know I’m not Inquiring mind and I’m a few days late in responding to this thread, but I wanted to once again add my two cents for what it’s worth. While I certainly agree that the adcom in nyc’s situation did not do a great job, I think it’s important for even invited guests to realize that any student attending these schools are there to learn and should be able to enjoy a certain amount of privacy within their world. These kids live in a fishbowl for far too much of their day. It’s an inevitable part of the boarding school experience. Just imagine what it must be like to have even very nice visiting parents coming through your school on a daily basis, peeking into classrooms, walking through dorms, checking out the bathrooms just to have a look, watching kids eat and listening in on their conversations. We must remember that these are kids. They are students trying to learn and enjoy their day and they are absolutely not obligated to even answer questions if they have not volunteered to do so even if it is just in the cafeteria. Of course as parents we want to learn everything we can about a school, but it shouldn’t be at the expense of the students. That’s what revisit days are for. I think it would be nice if new parents could keep this in mind when visiting. Schools have an obligation to their students to keep disruptions to a minimum. It’s not very comfortable to be constantly watched and asked. NYC, we all want what is best for our kids and you’re trying hard to find the right fit. But if every person visiting a school asked questions of kids going about their day, in the end it would really be disruptive. I’m sure you wouldn’t want that for your child either once they are enrolled. Given the same set of circumstances I’m sure I would have had a hard time passing up such a great opportunity, but now that this has been brought out in the open, D’yer’s suggestions might be helpful to you.</p>

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<p>This actually prompts a quesiton I have…everyone, including the schools say it is best to come when school is in session, but I have to wonder why? We peek into classrooms but don’t really SEE anything. We peek into dorms but so what - see rooms, but does it really matter that it is a mess with kids stuff? Really, what is the benefit of being there when school is in session? Our best tour was from an admissions person who was a former student (best of both worlds there).<br>
As others have said, revist days are for classroom visits and most have told us there is a time for questions etc for current students.
What am I missing?</p>

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<p>My D attended boarding school and prospects ALWAYS asked her questions and she never found it to be intrusive. Other students (perhaps less social) would make polite excuses and were never, to my knowledge, pressed.</p>

<p>I’m agree w/ Linda A. Why do schools tout visiting as a way to gage the"fit" of the school if prospects aren’t allowed more than a “peek” as students passing by. </p>

<p>Even on revist days, which are spent mostly in class, it can be difficult to ask questions of anyone other than your host student</p>

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<p>I think that most schools do the best they can to allow people to get a feel for what they are about. It’s a different experience for everyone. My kids are very happy and social. However, it does sometimes bother them that 40 people can walk by during a large tour and peek at everything they are doing. It’s just a distraction that temporarily takes away their focus. Multiply it by the amount of people and individual tours that go on and it adds up. Not everyone is as considerate as you might be and there have been times when indeed they were pressed or even embarrassed by some questions asked. Kids get over things quickly. It’s just a parent like me that doesn’t forget these things, but all in all it’s certainly not the biggest deal in the world.</p>

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<p>I agree live & learn. Along with the fact that we really don’t see anything of value by peeking in a classroom, why is it so important that visits take place during the school day? Yes, at one school that we asked if it was ok for us to walk around a little afterwards on our own, we were very impressed that every single student we say said hello to us, but other than that, I think I don’t see the value of the tour when kids are there. And clearly, there are downsides for the students.</p>

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<p>Logistically speaking, it definitely makes sense for the Admissions Office schedule to dovetail with the academic calendar.</p>

<p>If I can reach…maybe the benefit is to get a sense of the “buzz” that’s on campus during the day? (No funny stuff with that…you all know what I mean!)</p>

<p>I think it’s mainly that the Admissions Office people are fully engaged in the life of the campus. Some are coaches or have other EC responsibilities after academic hours. And, if they’re there for the academic calendar, then that means they’d have to be called in to work extra days if the schedule breeched too deep into the holiday and vacation days on the school calendar.</p>

<p>One school that we visited, St. George’s, had students sit in on classes during a Saturday group visit event (one of several “St. George’s Days” they hold). Another school we visited, Asheville School, had a similar event during a weekday and they held a “demo” humanities class (combined history and English) for the participants. (I thought that one was pretty funny because applicants and parents were all in the room and every time the teacher asked a question, there were a couple of parents who kept raising their hands a little too eager to impress the teacher. “Oooh me! Call on me! Ooooh oooh, PUH-LEEZ call on meeee!”)</p>

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<p>Most of the schools have admissions people working during the summer. Yes, I know most of them coach and are dorm parents, but most of those jobs seem to be 12 month positions. </p>

<p>None of the visits we have done have included anything more than a “peek” into a classroom. Maybe an open house would inlcude a “demo” class, but none of our visits so far. The only classrooms we’ve been able to look at more closely have been the ones with no kids. </p>

<p>If schools don’t want parents or perspective students interacting with the current students (back to the op), then really for the *Convenience * of their schedules, I’m still not seeing why tours are done with kids there. Open houses I can see.</p>

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<p>My perspective is very different but perhaps that is because I am with a much smaller school that gets fewer applicants and rejects fewer applicants. If you are applying to the big schools or the schools with a high rejection rate, they may have less interest or ability to interact with every applicant. After all, only 1/4 of those people will ever actually become students and for the school it is a seller’s market. </p>

<p>At my school, parents and students tour, often one-on-one, and usually with a current student, not a paid admissions counselor. The prospective student is encouraged to sit in on classes, not just peek in. Everyone is encouraged to talk to anyone they meet in the halls - so long as we aren’t keeping students or teachers from getting to class on time. If you stay for a meal (and we encourage you to), we will sit with a random group of students - making sure first that we aren’t interrupting anything. The one place where we draw the line is that, unlike college visits, we do not allow prospective students to stay in the dorms overnight. Our students are just too busy to offer visiting students the Southern hospitality that we would want to show.</p>

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<p>Interesting. All the schs on D’s list are relatively small (under 500) and the sch at issue has an enrollment of approx 200.</p>

<p>Yes, touring while shc is in session will give a propsie a n sense the campus “buzz.” But isn’t the adcoms conduct part of that “buzz?” </p>

<p>And if, as you advise, we assign little or no value to D’s apparent rapport w/ adcom1and overlook adcom2’s errant intervention, we will have discounted 2 of our 3actual interactions on campus. That leaves us w/ a tour guide (nice, but a White day-student into art - - nothing in common w/ black boarder propsie into sports) and the few students we passed in the halls or observed in class. Not much of a basis upon which to make an informed decision.</p>

<p>What’s the value of visiting only to be urged to ignore anything negative that one experiences or observes first-hand? (I’m not speaking of this experience - - since I did ask for input, but generally any negative remark regarding a sch prompts posts from parents/supportes insisting that the negative is not at all representative of their school.).</p>

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<p>I am assuming that the “you” in your last post refers to a more general “you” since you know that I don’t agree with the posters who suggested that you overlook this.</p>

<p>If you went to buy a car and the test car stalled out, if the salesman steered you away from talking to another customer about whether they liked the car, and if you didn’t have good rapport with that salesperson in the first place, you probably wouldn’t buy a car there. For all our high talking, education is a product (and a very relationship dependent product) and those of us in admissions are in the sales business. It is the school’s job to hire good adcoms, it is the adcoms job to make you comfortable, to answer your questions, to address any specific needs or concerns you or your family has. If they don’t do that - well, TABS has 300 members. You have far more choices than you do when you’re buying a car.</p>

<p>As I said before, go with your gut.</p>

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<p>oops - - I centainly didn’t mean you, sbergman.</p>