Adcon or Adcom: privacy question

Applying to College
1

<p>I was curious about what the rules are that govern information exchange about applicants. And I was also interested in the 'practice' - what <em>really</em> goes on behind closed doors with admissions and other people who are NOT applicants.</p>

<p>For example, during an interview, an admissions officer said he was good friends with S's HS guidance counselor. The admissions officer also asked S, during the same interview, whether S visited other colleges X and Y. </p>

<p>S answered q truthfully (no), but S wondered if the admin officer can ask HS guidance counselor what other colleges S applied to. And, if there is some sort of privacy rule that prohibits counselors (HS or college) from saying things without applicant's knowledge, as a matter of practice, can and do they engage in this talk informally and unofficially? </p>

<p>This prompted the bigger questions above - this has to do with both HS and college counselors.</p>

2

<p>there are conflicts of interest present in many situations in real life. The HS guidance counselor, as you have realized, is an example. While it would be nice if the best interests of you the student was at the forefront of your GC, truth is the interests of the school probably take precedence over you the individual. The HS and college are in a dance, they were partners back when you were just in elementary school and they'll still be partners when you're raising your own kids. Which means the relationship between them trumps that of you and your once-in-a-lifetime college application.</p>

<p>So do counselors share things "off the record" with colleges? You bet! A adcom and a GC that know each other will share plenty of things that aren't in the official record. So if you've got things to hide or have made enemies of your GC, bad news for you. On the other hand this relationship can work out quite well for the HS and its students. When a GC goes to bat for a kid who the GC believes has a lot more potential than the record might indicate, the college will listen. If your teachers love you, the GC will make sure his buddy the adcom knows this. And in a weak year vis-a-vis the HS applicants the college may be willing to bend a bit to keep the relationship going, knowing that the next year the GC will be working to make sure the top kids consider that college.</p>

3

<p>thanks, mikemac, for the great insight into the bigger picture.</p>

<p>We wuv our GC !</p>

<p>So the GC is not, then, like a legal advocate/lawyer, or a social worker-kind of counselor, where I believe there is a client privacy pact, correct?</p>

<p>The GC works for the school and not for the student, the one who is being guided, or served.. Strike that. The school social worker works for the school, but I am certain that he or she cannot talk without the client's permission to anyone, including parents (unless it is a serious law breaking kind of thing). The kinds of info I am talking about with the GC is certainly not dangerous law breaking kinds of info.</p>

4

<p>I dont' know what the legal requirements are, but I think the best way to view your GC is that she/he is working in the best interest of ALL students. There are lots of grey areas about what can be discussed, and I would think that a lot of info passes informally and unofficially between GC and adcoms that have a standing relationship. To give an example I remember reading, if a GC has 2 kids applying to a college and they are wavering on which one to take (and the adcom/GC have a good enough relationship they can discuss this), the GC will steer them towards the one that really wants to go there and will probably enroll. Its scratching each others' back; the college gets a good kid and keeps their yield up, the counselor helps one of her/his kids out. They're in this dance for the long haul. Of course the kid who is rejected might not see this so positively.</p>

<p>For a fascinating acount of how this works from the inside, read the book "The Gatekeepers". Its written by a reporter who spent a year inside the admissions office at Wesleyan, a top LAC. While most of the book is about how the adcoms reach their decisions, you can see there is plenty of contact (and lobbying) between HS's and the adcoms.</p>

5

<p>Slightly off topic, D told me that she read in some book that GC or teachers who do not want any negativity going onto the official record sometimes use brightly colored stickies attached to the recommendation letters pointing to the negative stuff, something along the lines "grade-grubber", "biggest whiner", "was caught cheating but parents threatened to sue the school so it never went on record", etc.</p>

6

<p>I agree with mikemac (who always gives good counsel :) ). </p>

<p>Like like anyone working in any other business a guidance counselor works at developing and maintaining good working relationships whether they are with teachers, administrators (both in and out of their schools) colleges, other schools, social workers, referral agencies (both in and outside of the department of education). </p>

<p>Elementary GCs maintain & develop relationships with middle school GCs, middle school GCs maintain and develop relationship with high school GCs, High school GCs maintain and develop relationships with Admissions Directors, financial aid personnel, other high school GCs, etc). This is done to do what is in the best interest of the student and the school.</p>

<p>Guidance counselors and their regional Admission personnel will meet and cross paths on a number of occasions; seminars, the open house/ fair that the college gives, the open house / college fair that the school gives, etc. making it a really small world (who do you think extends the invitations to your school's college fair?). It is not unusual for a school that has a track record of sending students to a particular college for the GC and the regional admissions person not to have a good professional and friendly working relationship How do you think these great track records happen? By building relationships and becoming a school or college of choice. </p>

<p>This is why your GC may get up set with the student who trys to game the ED process, because now they have to go back to their business associate and friend and make amends to keep their integrity and the relationship in tact.</p>

<p>Most Admissions Directors at COFHE schools all know each other. Admissions directors at schools that are part of a consortium all know each other. Many Admission directors travel together to attend the same open house, college fair, seminar).</p>

<p>It is not unusual if a counselor has a relationship with an admissions person to pick up the phone or to shoot an e-mail to ask a quick process question, to inquire about a student who was deferred/waitlisted and put in a good word for them, or ask for a professional favor (they are late sending a recommendation/transcript and giving a heads up)</p>

<p>
[quote]
D told me that she read in some book that GC or teachers who do not want any negativity going onto the official record sometimes use brightly colored stickies attached to the recommendation letters pointing to the negative stuff, something along the lines "grade-grubber", "biggest whiner", "was caught cheating but parents threatened to sue the school so it never went on record", etc.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Most teachers write their own recommendations, however some teachers will come to discuss a student with a guidance counselor to get some input on how to best discuss a situation in a recomendation. I have never yet seen a recommendation with a sticky on it.</p>

7

<p>good rundown, sybbie - you sound like you're in the biz- a quick add to the sticky notes: pls recall that in addition to teacher recs, colleges require a counselor report/statement, aka school report in common app land.</p>

8

<p>So we established that adcons probably will speak to HS GCs beyond what is formally written.</p>

<p>Does anyone know if, and to what extent, college adcons speak to each other? </p>

<p>do they check whether joe schmo was accepted/rejected/waitlisted?</p>

9

<p>In terms of any privacy issues with the HS guidance counselor & a college a student has applied to: there aren't any. By requesting the GC to fill out the school reports and the recommendation forms, the student has waived any privacy or confidentiality rights he or she might have had. A student can't say to the GC (or to a social worker, for that matter), "You can tell College X about the good things, but not about the bad." The waiver is for all or nothing.</p>

10

<p>The NACAC website is a good resource.
NACAC</a> NACAC Policies and Statements</p>

11

<p>Understood that a HS student allows the GC to write an assessment to an adcon, good and bad, but what about talk of the student BEYOND what is written on the form? Does the student's waiver allow any communication beyond this? </p>

<p>Does the waiver extend to such "tactical college search" questions such as how many colleges is Joe S applying to?</p>

<p>I think it does not so extend. It should stick with what the student did academically and extracurricularly during HS.</p>

12

<p>I believe that the waiver would extend to any questions that the college asks that the GC wants to answer. However, I believe that most responsible GCs would not answer that question simply because it's none of the college's business but not because of any privacy considerations.</p>