<p>Not easy for the common folk. I always thought this issue was too underplayed. Very tough adjustment for the regular kid.</p>
<p>Egalitarianism</a> Among the Elites | Inside Higher Ed</p>
<p>I read the article and it is way over the top. I dislike frats and the stereotypes associated with them. but this op/ed is just silly.</p>
<p>Would it be that much different at a non-elite school (LAC or otherwise) that happened to have students who were very heavily skewed to those from upper income families?</p>
<p>I guess my son was assigned the “Common Folk” entree! </p>
<p>I think it’s important to note that Reed attended Williams in the late '80s. All of the selective Northeast private colleges – not just small LACs – have made considerable progress toward diversity of all sorts, including economic.</p>
<p>and I think the article is very unfair, and frankly, deceptive considering how radically different the school was in the late 1980’s vs. today. It’s the equivalent of an alum from 1970 saying in 1990 that the school was awful for women – yeah, because there were no women on campus in 1970! Even when I was at Williams (a bit more recent than Reed, but things have still changed quite a bit since I was there), the overwhelming entitled, rich, preppy frat boy culture that he describes was certainly on the decline. It was decidedly uncool to talk about / gloat about money, certainly, and the school was working hard to diversify. </p>
<p>Now, Williams is composed of about 50 percent domestic minority and international students (when Reed was on campus, that number was around half that amount, so we are talking about a dramatic demographic shift). Back in the 1980’s, a decided minority of campus was on financial aid. Now, more than half of students receive financial aid. Around 20 percent of Williams students are first generation students, and nearly that many are Pell Grant recipients. There is still plenty of drinking on campus, to be sure, but it’s nothing like the frat-boy dominated culture that he describes. I’d describe campus wealth as basically a bell curve, except that the middle of the bell curve is at the high end of upper middle class instead of truly middle class. But there are roughly as many kids from poor and/or uneducated family backgrounds as there are kids of the top few percent — not representative of society, to be sure, but also not a place where rich, entitled kids are a dominant faction on campus, either. </p>
<p>I am someone who went to a large public high school, and my parents were both public educators. I did not play a varsity or club sport at Williams. Most of my Williams friends were from middle class or upper middle class families. I saw some pockets of the culture he described to be sure, but I’d hardly say it dominated then, and most certainly does not dominate now, at Williams and its peers. Yes, there is a lot of wealth at any elite educational institution, no doubt about it. But Williams and its peers have changed dramatically from the prep school finishing schools they still were to some extent in the 1970’s and 1980’s. When more than half of students receive financial aid, it’s hard to claim that the campus is overwhelmingly filled with kids who won’t ever have to work. And honestly, neither I, nor Reed, would likely be accepted at Williams today – the kids now have to work SO much harder just to get accepted. The reality is that if you feel a sense of entitlement, you probably won’t the drive to get in in the first place.</p>
<p>This sort of reminds me of that Princeton story where the guy wasn’t allowed to use the living room. Funny but dated article of the 80’s. I was warned by a couple of girls who went to LAC’s in the 90’s that my daughter was going to be at rich kid’s school at Brown, but it didn’t ever seem to be a blip on her radar.</p>
<p>Would love to hear from someone at Williams now- what has changed and what hasn’t changed. At a large public school in Texas where 90% of the kids were on free/reduced lunch, Williams gave a full ride to the valedictorians two years in a row. They were sisters and children of immigrants. I still couldn’t help but feel that it would be a culture shock and challenge for them though. I hope they give these kids the support that they need to enter that kind of world.</p>
<p>Why would most avg income students bother with a rich dominated but non elite school–(se Lake Forest))? I read recently that most elite schools are as dominated or more so by elite families as ever BTW.1 of many articles</p>
<p>[Ruling-class</a> students dominate elite U.S. colleges](<a href=“http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/06-10-06-rulingclass-students-dominate-e.html]Ruling-class”>http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/06-10-06-rulingclass-students-dominate-e.html)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sometimes, such a school may be their in-state public school.</p>
<p>[Economic</a> Diversity | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity/page+10]Economic”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity/page+10) lists Pell grant percentages.</p>
<p>12% College of William and Mary
13% University of Virginia
13% University of Delaware
17% University of Wisconsin - Madison
18% Virginia Tech
19% Auburn University
19% University of Colorado - Boulder</p>
<p>[Economic</a> Diversity | Rankings | Top National Liberal Arts Colleges | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/economic-diversity/page+9]Economic”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/economic-diversity/page+9) lists a number of LACs (not necessarily elite) with low Pell grant percentages.</p>
<p>Frat boy culture is alive and well at many colleges, including (but not exclusive to) the so-called elite or rich kids’ colleges. It doesn’t much matter how many more students are now on scholarships at these schools, because the attitudes and behaviors (from casual towel-snapping to campus rape) extend up and down the class ladder. </p>
<p>The obvious personal solution is to avoid any college with a dominant frat boy culture. FBC is virtually non-existent at a few selective LACs. At others, it seems to co-exist politely with a more dominant lefty-liberal, PC majority. To anyone determined to avoid FBC, its signals are pretty easily detected (in everything from clothing to dorm room wall art and dining hall seating arrangements). </p>
<p>Is tolerating FBC the price one pays “to compete in the realms of top medical programs, finance capital, law, and academia”? Maybe in finance capital, still, if that’s your thing. In medicine, law, and especially academia, many rather PC college communities seem to do quite well by their students. If you want to “toughen up” without beer pong, try building houses with Habitat or a stint with Teach for America.</p>
<p>This thread reminds me of one that took place on the Wesleyan forum about a year ago. It mashed many of the same buttons, including FBC vs. PC, class, perceived racism (or, a perceived charge of racism, I’m not sure which) before being closed by the mods. The fact that it attracted participation from all three of the old-line Little Three (Amherst, Williams and Wesleyan) suggests how much these things still matter. Ironically, the OP’s screen name was “Hockeykid”:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/wesleyan-university/1191404-what-has-happened-wesleyan.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/wesleyan-university/1191404-what-has-happened-wesleyan.html</a></p>
<p>[Accepting</a> the majority ? The Williams Record](<a href=“http://williamsrecord.com/2013/01/16/accepting-the-majority/]Accepting”>http://williamsrecord.com/2013/01/16/accepting-the-majority/)</p>
<p>Apparently, it’s not easy for the wealthy either.</p>
<p>There is a LOT more to overall SES than just Pell. UW has about half the average family income of UVa and W&M and is very middle-class overall. Probably same for Va Tech and Auburn. And several of those are also elite schools. Actually what was point??
With the new economics I think many of those now getting fin aid at places like The Little Three will be disappearing as the schools cut back on that kind of aid.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Finally, a comment I can fully endorse. The Pell statistics are entirely misleading, and much --too much-- has been made out of the numbers. One only needs to see the numbers reported in California to understand the shenanigans that accompany the Pell reporting and utilization.</p>
<p>^^Cite, please.</p>