Admission is geting tougher at JMU

<p>Virginia state schools are geting really tough! </p>

<p>Here is an article that appeared in the Washington post. There was a kid with 2240 SATs and 3.4 GPA ( as a result of a death in family and mono in early years) who got rejected everywhere including James Madison University. Things are geting tough for Virginia state universities. Don't use this school as a safety unless you have a 3.6+ gpa</p>

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<p>N.Va. College Applicants Face Extra Hurdle
Abundance of Achievers Stiffens Competition</p>

<p>Joe Robinson, his mother, Alison, and school counselor Mitch Aydlette check a list of students and the colleges they will probably attend. Joe's name isn't on the list. (By Richard A. Lipski -- The Washington Post) </p>

<p>The news hit Robinson Secondary School in Fairfax County right after spring vacation. "Joe Robinson got rejected by JMU?! How can that be?" </p>

<p>James Madison University in Harrisonburg is one of the best schools in Virginia, students, teachers and counselors agree. Most students would have trouble getting in. But this was Joe Robinson who got the thin envelope, the same Joe Robinson who had an SAT score of 2270, who was one of only two National Merit semifinalists in his class, who heads the choral group, who writes fantasy novels in his spare time, who had some of the most glowing teacher recommendations his counselor had ever seen. </p>

<p>"Everyone at Robinson who knows Joe" is "in disbelief," counselor Mitch Aydlette said in a written appeal of JMU's decision. The university had been his best hope, for the 17-year-old was rejected by the more selective schools on his list: the University of Virginia, Dartmouth College, Boston College, the University of Notre Dame and the University of Oxford. </p>

<p>This is a tough year for applicants to top colleges. Demographers say the number of high school graduates has reached a peak. Admission standards are higher, and well-regarded public universities such as JMU, charging much less than private colleges of similar quality, are particularly prized. </p>

<p>But Joe Robinson's failure to get into a university his family and advisers thought a cinch for someone with his record suggests to several experts that college applicants from Northern Virginia are facing unusually stiff competition -- increasingly from one another. The region, with an extraordinary concentration of high-performing schools and students, might have to adjust long-held assumptions about the power of scores and grades in college admissions. </p>

<p>JMU spokesman Don Egle said the university's admission process is "very competitive," with 20,000 applications this year for a class of 3,960. The university, he said, considers test scores, awards, recommendations, activities, grades and essays. </p>

<p>The one apparent flaw on Robinson's application was his 3.4 grade point average, when the JMU average is about 3.6. Fairfax doesn't use class rankings. He managed a 3.0 in ninth and 10th grade, when he was preoccupied with troubles a friend faced, two of his great-grandparents died and mononucleosis put him in bed for four weeks. Many selective schools tell applicants that if they finish strong in high school, mediocre early report cards won't mean so much. In the past two years, his GPA has been 4.1, and rising. With an SAT score among the top 10 percent for JMU students and literary skills that leave school faculty awestruck, Robinson's grades, Aydlette said he thought, would not be a problem. </p>

<p>"Among my 18 students who applied to JMU (7 admitted), I rate Joe as the finest overall scholar," Aydlette wrote in his appeal. Robinson Secondary, with about 4,000 students from grades 7 to 12, is the state's largest public school. </p>

<p>But Shirley Bloomquist, a former guidance director at the Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Fairfax who is now a college-admissions consultant, said many Northern Virginia families overlook that large numbers of students in the region have high test scores and good grades. Many of them, she said, are in competition with each other. The top state undergraduate institutions, such as U-Va., the College of William & Mary, Virginia Tech and JMU, also "cannot take all of their students from Northern Virginia," Bloomquist said. "They have to leave room" for students from other parts of the state. </p>

<p>On the role of geography in admissions, JMU's Egle said, "We are interested in the best high school students from all of the regions across the state." Greg Roberts, associate dean of admission at U-Va., said through a spokesman: "Our primary goal is to enroll an academically strong and diverse class of first-year and transfer students each year. As a state institution, we are interested in enrolling students from all areas of the commonwealth." </p>

<p>Robinson's SAT score of 2270, out of a possible 2400, looked terrific compared with the JMU average of about 1710. But experts said JMU's admissions officers expect high scores from Fairfax and will probably take just as close a look at a hardworking student with a lower SAT score from a place such as Galax, to the southwest, or Petersburg, south of Richmond. </p>

<p>The competition for spaces in state universities is also intensifying. "I believe the downturn in the economy this year has made public schools hotter than ever," said New York-based educational consultant William Short. David Hawkins, director of public policy and research for the Alexandria-based National Association for College Admission Counseling, said JMU is an example of what many top students have long considered a good "safety" school. But he said, "We can see that it is not, in fact, a sure thing for these students anymore." </p>

<p>Bloomquist said she has expunged the term "safety school" from her vocabulary and speaks instead of "likely schools." In the past few years, she said, "I have become very conservative." Even for students with records as good as Robinson's, she said, she might suggest adding to their lists state universities such as Christopher Newport in Newport News or George Mason in Fairfax, just north of Robinson Secondary. That would force students to apply to more colleges, but several experts said expanding the pool of likely admissions prospects seems better than what happened to Joe Robinson. </p>

<p>In the meantime, some Virginia lawmakers have called for tighter limits on the number of out-of-state students. But the higher out-of-state tuition, $8,693 this year at JMU compared with $3,333 for in-state students, helps pay faculty salaries as the state government grapples with lean budgets amid a difficult economy. The governing boards of each state university in Virginia decide how many out-of-state students will be admitted. At JMU, the ratio is 70 percent in-state and 30 percent out-of-state. </p>

<p>Students in Robinson's situation are not without options. Often, they can seek admission in the late spring to colleges that still have openings. If his appeal to JMU is denied, Robinson said, he might spend a year at a community college and then try again, focusing next time on Notre Dame. His school's principal, Dan Meier, a former counselor, said he has talked to Robinson about his rejections and wonders why more room for Virginia students can't be found. </p>

<p>"I have been frustrated by this for many years," Meier said. "We have such wonderful state colleges, but it is so difficult for our students to get into them."</p>

<p>Interesting article taxguy. Thanks for posting it. A kid like this being denied to one of his state schools is frustrating. I feel that VA should have the same in-state acceptance rates as that of NC schools (under 20% I believe). I am not trying to exclude out of state kids, but with the fierce academic admissions competition that these kids face, the fact that many families are opting for the less expensive state school route, and the quality of the VA state schools being what it is, accepting 30-35% of each incoming class from OOS is too much in my opinion. I know these universities want a well-rounded, diverse student body, but they are state schools, funded by state tax payers' monies.....</p>

<p>Virginia schools will not lower oos percentages, it brings in money! That is what virginia schools are concerned with, higher oos rates brings in more money from higher tuition costs. I think enhancing "diversity" is their excuse.</p>

<p>Oh I just posted this. haha</p>

<p>I love this article! It sums up how I feel about the admissions process: it's nuts.</p>

<p>Thanks for posting this article, which I read in the Wash Post. I totally agree that the competition among Northern Virginia students to get into the top state schools is crazy. I think, however, some questions are left unanswered within the article such as: how many AP classes did this student take, what kind of essay did he write, when did he apply, did he apply to any other VA state schools (besides UVA), how much of his SAT score was on the math side, etc? Also, it didn't sound like he had much extracurricular activity going on besides chorus. His whole "sales pitch" was his SAT score and his terrific writing skills (yet was he not on the school paper, literary magazine, or yearbook staff?). I would not doubt that this young man could do well at JMU. But when competition at the top colleges is as fierce as it is, students need to stand out from the crowd to get in. In reading this article, I don't know if this student did that, but I'm sure he'll land on his feet safely.</p>

<p>We have the same issues facing NY students getting admitted to our higher ranked SUNY's. My son applied to Geneseo, waitlisted for spring 2009, and Binghamton-rejected. 90 GPA, 1250 SAT'a. I have seen postings on CC with lower qualified applicants getting accepted to both, also receiving OOS scholarship $$. In NY it is even more frustrating, because in state tuition 6,400- OOS tuition 10,000. Why is it when my son has applied to OOS schools, UDEL,JMU,Penn,Vtech all their OOS tuition is approximately 18000.00 per year, as I believe it should be. Why is OOS tuition at SUNY's such a bargain, I feel taking seats away from in state students. UDEL will accept a lower ranked in state as opposed to an OOS. Other states must adopt this policy too. Why are so many students forced to go OOS and pay OOS tuition because they are not getting accepted to their in state schools?</p>

<p>ddotjon,I believe that we have the same problem in NJ with TCNJ. If you are not in commuting distance, I believe it is easier to get in from OOS than from instate. </p>

<p>There was a discussion on SUNY OOS fees, and they can't seem to charge more and still attract OOS students. As it is, I think that many of the SUNYs have 5% OOS. VA seems to invest a lot in their public universities, and they seem to fill their 30% OOS seats. I just wish that we were instate.</p>

<p>Does anyone know how important AP's are in JMU's decisions? We moved to Fairfax county last year, have a daughter who's a sophomore, and are trying to make course decisions for next year. We're trying to decide whether to leave her in Pre-AP classes in order to keep GPA where it is (3.7), or put her in AP's and risk lowering the GPA (since the grading scale is so high here). She will definitely take 2 AP's her senior year...</p>

<p>She's also looking at Virginia Tech, if anyone knows what they look for.</p>

<p>Any thoughts?</p>

<p>Attending the "full IB program" (IB diploma) with GPA=3.75+, at least SAT=2000, and decent ECs would send her to most (if not all) VA pub. universities, including UVA and W&M. My D did that and got accepted to UVA, W&M, JMU, VTech, VCU (full ride), Villanova (scholarship) and Loyola (full ride).</p>

<p>VT loves IB. If her GPA=3.75+ and SAT = 1350 (V+M) or GPA=3.5 and SAT=1400 (V+M), she would be accepted to Tech's honors college.</p>

<p>bln_1975,</p>

<p>Don't I wish...</p>

<p>I have a son who's a first year at UVA, so I'm pretty familiar with the stats needed to get in there and W&M. But to be honest, my daughter's stats aren't anywhere close to her brother's. Hard to guess where her SAT scores will fall, as she's just a sophomore, but probably high 1100's to low 1200's. Coming from FFX county, her GPA looks strong enough for both JMU and VTech, if she can maintain it. The question is, does she need AP's her junior year to be competitive or is taking 2 her senior year good enough? We don't want her GPA to fall (which it probably will in AP's) if if isn't necessary.</p>

<p>Cganyard,</p>

<p>If that is the case, you are right. She should not let her GPA fall. SAT=1200 (V+M) would be fine for VT and JMU, but her GPA should be 3.6+ (average GPA at JMU is ~ 3.60 and VT is ~ 3.70). She should take calculus (if not, at least pre-calculus). If she is not in "full IB", take a few IB course would help. If AP, taking one in her junior year and another in her senior year would be better for her.</p>

<p>Also, she should have some ECs (e.g., joint the school newspaper staff, year book and/or do volunteer work ...). Strong volunteer records would help her to get scholarships!</p>

<p>Last but not least, excellent essays help a lot!</p>

<p>I would take a lot of APs. I have taken 8, and they are a nice gpa boost if you can get a B+ or an A. I don't think anybody can tell you what specific stats will get you into these schools. I have soo many bizarre tales that I could tell about the admissions process, like kids with 2.2 gpas and 1800 SATs getting into JMU and VT or kids with 3.9s and 2100 SATs getting rejected from UVA. One thing I do know is that extracurriculars do count. Thats probably what helped me out since I did not have that high a gpa and my SAT scores were decent. Im pretty sure they want to see a complete package deal, someone with a drive. Admissions isn't tough if you know what you have to offer, and you think realistically about your chances.</p>

<p>kindaslick89,</p>

<p>Funny you should use the words "package deal." My D's counselor said exactly that, that JMU wants the whole package: grades, scores, honors/AP classes, ec's and recs. She said VTech was more "by the numbers" - meaning scores, class rank, and GPA. </p>

<p>As far as ec's go, my D has four Varsity letters (so far) for cheerleading (a two season sport here in FFX, fall and winter) and should have eight by graduation. And I hope the colleges know that cheer isn't what it used to be. I've had two sons on Varsity sports teams, and, believe me, her cheer schedule is every bit as demanding! She also has NHS, and community service/volunteer work/tutoring. Her recs and essays should also be good. Hope that helps... :)</p>

<p>I spoke with a college counselor who seems familiar with JMU. He said that he finds JMU to be a bit unpredictable. He has seen people with high stats rejected, and some students with lower stats being admitted.</p>

<p>northeastmom,</p>

<p>I heard that same thing...</p>

<p>I may be wrong, but from what I have read, they do seem to look at more than just numbers. They do value the essay, and ECs (ie community service), even though GPA is listed as most important (there is a list of what is important with respect to admissions on their website, so it shouldn't really be a mystery). It could be that a special essay, or a particular EC is an important tipping point, and perhaps that is what makes admissions look less predictable. They don't seem to strictly be a "by the numbers" school.</p>

<p>Ok I dont know if the GPA is that big of a thing I mean I got in with like a 2.8 GPA. But it could be because of the school I go to. I dont know it's a bad year for college admissions</p>

<p>Have her take at least one AP her junior year. Rigorous courseload can be the deciding factor at many of VA's top schools. It speaks volumes for the student's initiative. High GPA in doesn't look well on transcripts if no honors, AP's or IB's Daughter #1 was accepted at UVA and W&M. She attends W&M. Daughter #2 is a junior and doesn't feel she'd fare well at either university and is looking at JMU, GMU, and possibly VT. (though she hates the huge campus)</p>

<p>momray,
I appreciate the advice! By the time my D applies, she will have taken about half of her classes as honors/pre-AP. The question is does she have to have the AP's as a junior, or are honors/Pre-AP courses good enough? </p>

<p>In looking at the 2007 scattergrams for her FFX high school, with only one exception, JMU accepted all the applicants (40) with a 3.5 and above who had SAT scores in the 1100 or 1200 range. Of course, there isn't any information that tells me the level of courses these kids took. I maybe wrong, find it hard to believe that ALL of them took AP's their junior year.</p>

<p>I think that colleges like to see that the student "challenged" himself by taking a harder class and though not getting an A did ok with the course. Plus if you score a 3 or better on the AP final exam it translates into college credit!</p>