Admission Standards for Athletes at Princeton and in the Ivy League

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
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<p>I’ve seen some misinformation posted on this board recently about admission standards for athletes at Princeton and in the Ivy League.</p>

<p>This article from the New York Times sums it up quite well:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/25/sports/before-athletic-recruiting-in-the-ivy-league-some-math.html?_r=3&%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/25/sports/before-athletic-recruiting-in-the-ivy-league-some-math.html?_r=3&&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Eligibility for Ivy admission is determined by the Academic Index (AI), which is computed using SAT scores, SAT II scores and GPA. The maximum possible AI is 240. The average college student would have an AI of about 150. The minimum AI for Ivy admission as a recruited athlete is 176, which equates approximately to an 1140 (CR + M) on the SAT and a 3.0 GPA. Very few with an AI that low will get in. </p>

<p>The athletes at any given school must have an average AI that is within one standard deviation of the admitted class as a whole, with the exception of football, which must have an average within two standard deviations. I read somewhere (source escapes me) that the AI for Princeton as a whole is 228, and that the average for athletes overall is 214. A 214 would be a student with a 4.0 average and an SAT of 1300 (CR + M). Test scores comprise 2/3 of the AI, while grades comprise 1/3 of the formula.</p>

<p>That means that if there are five high profile athletes accepted with an AI of 176 or so (typically athletes who are being recruited by Big 10-level football or basketball schools, or likely Olympians), then the other 220 athletes must make up for it by averaging over 214 to bring the athletic recruitment cohort in line overall.</p>

<p>A school is allowed to beef up one sport at the expense of another one. A school could have some low AI admits in men’s basketball to beef up that program, and make their women’s cross country admits average 220 to make up for it if they care to.</p>

<p>There are a limited number of admissions slots for each sport. Football gets 30, and other sports get much less. I believe that Princeton’s total number of admission slots is about 225.</p>

<p>And one thing that disappoints some applicants: being a team captain or All-League or All-State means little to nothing over being a bench warmer to admissions if the coach doesn’t tell admissions that he or she wants to give the player an admissions slot. I have seen All-State athletes with 2100 SAT’s (and who were also children of wealthy alumni donors) get turned down because the coach didn’t give them an admissions slot. Coaches rank the players; admissions decides if the candidate is admissible after the coach tells them that they want the athlete admitted.</p>

<p>This is an oversimplification, by the way. The process is actually far more complicated.</p>

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<p>Boondocks: Thank you. I enjoyed your post more than the article.</p>

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<p>Having met with a coach who explained the process, I would say the OP has an accurate synopsis of what we heard first hand. Essentially the lower your AI, the more phenomenal you need to be in your chosen sport. Very few athletes are admitted at the lower end…most do fall within a standard deviation of the school as a whole. And yes, the athlete will need to be supported by a coach through the application process for his or her athletic accomplishments to be weighed in.</p>

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<p>Princeton, Harvard, and Yale have the highest AIs in the league, so their athletes are held to a higher standard than the other Ivies. Boondocks gives an accurate summary but, as he states, it is more complicated than just the AI.</p>

<p>While the 4.0/1350 example cited above is theoretically possible, it would be very rare and almost certainly be limited to football. For most sports the general rule is 700s across the board in SATs including Subject tests, and a 3.7+ UW GPA with a rigorous courseload.</p>

<p>Obviously it’s tough for a coach to build a strong team with these limitations. But some coaches do surprisingly well. Last year Princeton’s fencing team not only won the Ivy championships, they also placed 2nd at the NCAA championships. And yes, they are Division 1.</p>

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<p>^and this year, the field hockey team beat Maryland and North Carolina in the last two rounds,to win the NCAA championship. The first Ivy team to win the NCAA field hockey championship, I might add!</p>

<p>FWIW, a stellar athlete with perfect scores is a coaches dream.</p>

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<p>Yes, but may still carry the stigma of undeserving dumb athlete.</p>

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<p>According to Michele Hernandez, who was the first Ivy League Admissions Director to publish information about the Academic Index, the average of all Ivy applicants is around 200 while the average AI of accepted students is closer to the 211 range.</p>

<p>At Princeton, the average AI is slightly higher: [Getting</a> in: Athletes? road to admission - The Daily Princetonian](<a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2010/12/01/27054/]Getting”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2010/12/01/27054/)</p>

<p>“While the average Academic Index for recruited athletes is around 214, it is roughly 228 for all enrolled students”</p>

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<p>Sherpa: "Yes, but may still carry the stigma of undeserving dumb athlete. "</p>

<p>I don’t think there’s much of an undeserving dumb athlete stigma in the Ivy League, if any. Perhaps it’s because the distance academically isn’t that far from the regular student body for the most part, and because there are valedictorian athletes.</p>

<p>Athletes don’t seem to get held back by the that stereotype in the real world at all when they enter it. One of our linebackers became a governor, the one next to him became an orthopedist, the backup center became a cardiothoracic surgeon, the starting center became a Wall Street tycoon, our punter missed winning a Senate seat by 0.8% and the punter/strong safety from the year before made enough money in the finance industry to donate $10-million and get the football field named after him. And these are not isolated occurrences - this list goes on and on. Overall, the athletes seem to land a disproportionately high number of extremely well-paying Wall Street jobs. Many Wall Street people have told me they like to recruit Ivy athletes because they are smart, competitive and aggressive, which fares well on the Street.</p>

<p>I believe that Bowen’s study indicated that athletes get fewer graduate degrees, especially PhD’s, but earn more money in their careers (because so many go to Wall Street). Someone can correct me if this isn’t exactly right.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, some of the athletes at my school used their stereotype to have decreased expectations. Admittedly, these were few – there were certainly SUPERIOR scholars among the many athletes I knew, and in general, athletes had a tremendous work ethic that translated well into their classwork.</p>

<p>But a few “dumb jocks” liked the image and used it to their advantage, as they saw it. too bad</p>

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<p>“I believe that Bowen’s study indicated that athletes get fewer graduate degrees, especially PhD’s, but earn more money in their careers (because so many go to Wall Street). Someone can correct me if this isn’t exactly right.”</p>

<p>Correction: I meant to write that Bowen’s study indicated that athletes get fewer advanced degrees. Athletes earn their undergraduate degrees at about the same rate as do other undergrads.</p>

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<p>If you are a TOP athlete your scores can be significantly lower. Everybody is aware of this. There is an academic index for the team which allows for leeway for the highly desired athlete with the lower scores. I know of a recruit who scored just above 1800. This athlete did not have to take any subject tests.</p>

<p>Boon,</p>

<p>There have been many articles written about the athlete pipeline to wall street. This is very true. Many of the Wall Street recruits study the easiest major to garner the highest gpa. Believe me, many do not study anthing related to their work on Wall Street.</p>

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<p>Yup. Tons of jocks major in Anthro or History, then work at Goldman their junior summer, and work on Wall St after graduating.</p>

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<p>A varsity athlete recruit I know got an 1800 flat. They are waay lower if Pton actually wants you</p>

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<p>Just to clarify with respect to football - football is recruited in “bands.” There are four bands. The range of each band is different for each Ivy as it is computed based on the average AI of all students at that school and based on standard deviations from that average. The minimum AI for a recruit for all Ivies is 176.</p>

<p>For Princeton, band 1 (the lowest band) is for athletes with an AI from 176 up to about 186(+/-). The football team is limited to 2 recruits in this band 1, so there is a limit to how much the football recruits can bring down the average AI of all recruits at that school.</p>

<p>I don’t know exactly where band 4 (the top band) starts for Princeton, but it should be about the same as where it starts for Harvard and Yale which is at an AI of about 211.</p>

<p>Yale is required to take about 8 football recruits from band 4, so this should be about the same for Princeton, leaving about 20 spots for recruits in band 2 (7 allowed for Yale) and band 3 (13 allowed for Yale).</p>

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<p>I would disagree with this, at least on the whole. While I know quite a few very smart athletes (mostly runners), I do think there’s a stigma against athletes, particularly those that wear their varsity club gear to class.</p>

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<p>@boondocks I know this thread is super old, but if your coach tells recommends you to the admissions officers, are you guaranteed in, or do the marks and SAT scores that you get still play a role in whether Princeton decides to accept you? </p>

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<p>MODERATOR’S NOTE Use old threads for information only. If you have a question, open a new thread. Closing.</p>