<p>Heres an interesting article from the Cavalier Daily documenting that UVas decision to eliminate the Early Decision option for students applying to the University this past year did little, if anything, to increase the number of low-income students accepted into UVas Class of 2012.</p>
<p>As of early August, 185 low-income applicants had enrolled in this years incoming class, which was only five more than the 180 low-income students that enrolled in the Fall of 2007 incoming class.</p>
<p>I commend the University for their desire to recruit qualified low-income students. UVa needs to have a thoughtful, consistent and well-publicized program to attract low-income students to UVa.</p>
<p>However, Ive always believed that eliminating Early Decision would NOT produce a statistically meaningful increase in the number of low-income admissions, and therefore it was an ineffective way to pursue this segment of the applicant pool.</p>
<p>In the meantime, it greatly inconvenienced a significant number of students for whom the University of Virginia was their number one choice.</p>
<p>Perhaps its premature to declare the effort a failure based on only one year of data. But if this trend continues in future years, I hope President Casteen will have the courage and leadership skills to reverse this decision, and again make Early Decision an option in the UVa admissions process.</p>
<p>Anyone care to comment? All points of view are welcome.</p>
<p>I agree and disagree.
For agreement: obviously the last two years worth of stats have not shown much increase in minority students, which was the whole purpose as to why they removed ED. UVa is probably losing bright minds due to this, since kids now can apply to other top schools, and they may chose the others due to last minute jitters. Also, like you said, those devoted to UVa now are disadvantaged because more kids are applying against them at once and someone else may get in over them, but end up not going. The original UVa fan is then stuck without their dream school, while the admitted somewhat wastes a spot. With ED, at least they're applying against others with a desire to attend UVa.</p>
<p>Disagreement: not every story will be like above. And, this could actually lead to higher stats, as now UVa can see everyone at once and pick the best. That, and some kids may not be as qualified as RD kids, so can UVa really be the best? Also, ED leads to many people applying, just to be able to apply twice, without thought about whether or not they really want to come. And lastly, students are locked in if accepted, but may get a better financial package elsewhere, as UVa has to meet what they need, whereas another school may give them full tuition, which could be worth more.</p>
<p>Obviously, I'm not for or against ED, and with or without it, UVa gains in some way. I do think it would be wise to bring it back, but maybe modify it a bit. A rolling ED may be a good idea, because then they can really see who is interested, and also can be picky a bit more. But rolling ED would be a nightmare I bet. Early action would work well, but force them to notify you by when regular decisions are made, or you get put back in the pool. That way those who really want UVa can have the early option, but then kids aren't sucked into it, which would hurt the lower income students.</p>
<p>Dean J,
You say that you found this first year without ED "much better". In what ways? Better applicants? Smoother admissions process? Just curious.</p>
<p>Hello Powderpuff,
"It's good to see you again." (Taking a line from Apollo 13) Hope you enjoyed Organic this morning; I heard it looks like it's going to be an interesting class. Mr. Burnett’s an outstanding teacher.</p>
<p>For Dean J:
Wasn't it more hectic to have to read an additional 2,000+ apps in January and February that would have normally been disposed of in November with ED?</p>
<p>Hah! I love Apollo 13! "Good to see you" too, HHD. I did enjoy organic. Burnett's a good guy. I'm looking forward to this semester.<br>
I traveled so much this summer to visit extended family and with organized mission work. Most of this time I didn't have access to a computer, well not long enough to spend surfing CC. Any-HOO! I'm back now.
My biggest challenges today were dealing with apartment life and getting to Grounds on time for classes, figuring out bus routes, and meals, and what to do between classes. I feel more grounded this year than the start of last year. That's a good feeling.</p>
<p>As I said, I found it better overall. Looking back, I think we were happy to immerse ourselves in folders in light of other things that were going on in our office. </p>
<p>I've said this before: we talked about doing this a number of times in the past. Harvard and Princeton taking the dive probably helped bring some people around, but this was something that was discussed many times before there was even a hint about their decisions.</p>
<p>Around December, I didn't even know UVA cancelled ED -- I just applied all RD. I suppose the whole thing may have to kick in for a few years to make a difference. I found UVA quite by chance too.</p>
<p>Yeah, bus routes are so freaking confusing. I'm in "are you going to ____" mode.</p>
<p>Anyhoo, I am a bit confused on why UVa was expecting a spike in low-income students by eliminating ED. It's fairly obvious that low-income students do not apply ED due to the FA package situation. Why does eliminating ED mean that UVa would gain more low-income students? You're basically eliminating an option that low-income students don't use...</p>
<p>What I really don't understand is the whole college admissions process in general. Why not have students submit FA applications during the summer between junior and senior year? Therefore they could get a look at FA packages from 10 or so schools they would be interested in and then exercise ED/EA/Reg. That would also save students a lot of time and money by not spending the time filling out a $60 application to a school they cannot afford.</p>
<p>I agree with all of the above. One year is too early to make a firm decision. After all the change was not that well publicized at the time admissions for this calss was starting up. </p>
<p>On the other hand, the results are very disappointing. I cannot imagine anyone would argue that adding 5 lower income students offsets the inconvenience to thousands of applicants who would like to have add early decision to help their planning. </p>
<p>I still believe the better path is to offer a faster, firmer, financial aid response to early decision admits. My other son's school gives early decision admits a firm number within a week of admittance. They then have about 30 days to opt in or out. What can be fairer than that? Then you have the best of both worlds. Kids who want to fill out one app to their dream school and get it over with can do so, and low income students can do the same, knowing their options are still open.</p>
<p>It's the elephant that gave birth to a mouse. It is a pretty meager outcome for all the hoopla, lol. Has anyone compared the numbers of low income students accepted from 2006 to 2007? I bet there isn't much difference with 07/08.
The one good thing I guess is that if I understand Dean J, the deans of admission had a less frantic fall. ;)</p>
<p>
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I cannot imagine anyone would argue that adding 5 lower income students offsets the inconvenience to thousands of applicants who would like to have add early decision to help their planning.
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<p>Not only inconvenience, but stress and additional cost to many thousands of ED applicants. Applicants who paid an average of $60.00 per application to an average of 7 schools when maintaining ED would have eliminated that expense.</p>
<p>The three schools P,H and UVa probably realized an increase in applicant revenue as a result of eliminating ED. A burden born by the middle class who, in many cases, can ill afford it.</p>
<p>vistany, you are right, my other son went ED to his school and it was the only app he filled out. I never really thought about how much money that saved us, but it probably is $50-$75 times 5-7 schools. That pays books for a semester.</p>
<p>Well, since we have had a political administration during the past seven years that has done nothing to address the issue of the growing income disparity in our nation, it is good to see that universities are trying to address this problem. Those of us who have friends who are great low income students are familiar with the difficulties they face. Imagine having no money...none. Everything has to be done by waivers. Your parents do not keep records of anything. You cannot get proof of income or tax forms. You are reliant on school personnel to pay for everything. Everyone around you has credit cards and can apply to as many schools as they want. Even getting College Board to send things requires waivers, which requires more forms and red tape. Anything that can be done to even the playing field is good. Calling it "politically correct" is trivializing a very serious problem.</p>
<p>
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I assure you that this did not come up in our discussions.
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<p>Please don't misunderstand my meaning Dean J. I am not suggesting that increased application fees were a motivation, nor am I suggesting that it was ever discussed.</p>
<p>Having said that I do believe it would have been prudent to consider the financial impact of dropping ED on those who may not qualify for Access UVa but still struggle to afford the many costs associated with attending college. My own parents have scrimped and saved for years to assure our college education and despite all of their planning there are so many invisible costs. We are firmly middle class and I am an instate student. I deliberately stayed in Virginia because I didn't want to be a burden to my family. Universities need to consider their decisions, no matter how well intentioned, on the population at large.</p>
<p>The monies expended as a result of the elimination of ED at the subject schools, coupled with the expense of a nationwide recruitment effort, hardly seem worth the net increase of 5 students at UVa.</p>
<p>While this number may increase over time, it seems that there may have been more ecomonically advantageous ways of achieving the same result.</p>
<p>Keep in mind, dropping ED may result in the admissions office having to spend more money visiting schools and such in order to attract top students. Before, these students may have chosen ED at UVA, gotten in, and bam, UVa got itself a great applicant at a low cost. However, now that same kid can apply to other schools, and they may be more desirable. UVa then has to push to attract the student.</p>