<p>I just finished my essay for the Naval Academy and would like for someone to read over it and tell me what they think. All critique/commentary is welcome; the Naval Academy is my first choice so I'll gladly accept any advice that would improve my essay. I'll PM it to you if your interested, thanks in advance.</p>
<p>billythekid …just curious …did you land any suckers on your fishing trip?</p>
<p>yes he did…glad to do it.</p>
<p>shame on …</p>
<p>So Whistle, are youre chastising me for taking a couple of minutes to read his essay and make a few minor suggestions on how he might improve it? I have to assume that theres a valid reason hes making this plea in an open forum and not getting a parent, teacher or mentor to do same. Plus, my bottom line advice was that the essay is his and must reflect how he wants the NA to see him. Wheres the issue?</p>
<p>BTW: I have a D thats competing with him for a slot in the Class of 2014. So I guess I should have either told him to get lost or perhaps even given bad advice to boost her chances at his expense. Sorry, thats just not the way I think.</p>
<p>Not a federal offense, but a few thoughts:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Seems to fly in the face of honor, doing one’s own work, not cheating, keeping your eyes on your own test paper, keep your own test paper flat so’s not to tempt your shipmate, etc. </p></li>
<li><p>Everyone likes to help a young person. Not sure this is the right way to help, and sure USNA wants his ideas, reflections, and writing vs. someone(s) else.</p></li>
<li><p>This is NOT like writing essays for other institutions. </p></li>
<li><p>You need not assume anything. That’s silly. </p></li>
<li><p>Your bottomline counsel should have been your first assumption. Not your last.</p></li>
<li><p>You don’t need to tell him to “get lost.” Tell him nothing, like others. Or if you wish to be advisory, suggest doing his own work, top to bottom. Or just tell him you love him enough to allow him to do the honorable thing.</p></li>
<li><p>If any of us think this forum is the font of all editorial content or writing construct, lemme show you a nice piece of ocean-front property for sail in Iowa. I’m fully confident, a candidate for admission to USNA has other immediate sources of counsel re: such things. Aren’t you?</p></li>
<li><p>What would be his required answer if asked, “Did you prepare your application on your own?”</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Again, I don’t see this as a federal offense, but on the other hand, considering its intended purpose and readership, maybe it is. In any case, I do see it as a rather obvious miscarriage of one of the key principals that separates the men from the boys @ USNA and its like SAs. Perhaps this is what our politicos might call “a teaching moment?” </p>
<p>btw, more generally, unless he’s your neighbor or a fellow statesperson, generally he’s not competing with your dd for her slots.</p>
<p>I’d be interested to learn what others might think of your genuinely intended act of kindness, which I’m confident it was.</p>
<p>Aw Whistle Pig - lighten up. 
This is the same thing as having an English teacher or Mom/Dad giving it a look over.<br>
Most would highly recommend. It’s not cheating and not writing someone else’s essay.<br>
While there are some kids who want to just write it and send it - that’s fine but others may feel more comfortable with a disinterested third party giving it a look over.</p>
<p>Also - I disagree with #3 - it is very much like writing an essay for other institutions.</p>
<p>Whoa, the proverbial pot calling a kettle black rears her nasty nose. :p</p>
<p>You’re about as disinterested as Santa Claus is in Christmas. This is not the same, but unless it’s indicated, they shouldn’t be editing either. You’re confusing applying to a SA with, let’s say Marian Military Finishing School? There, it would not matter. ;)</p>
<p>If I recall correctly, when my son submitted his essay for USNA, the directions very clearly stated that the candidate could have someone look over the essay for obvious grammar or spelling issues but that was supposed to be the only outside assistance. </p>
<p>Now, sure, a parent might look at it and say "Why did you talk about ‘such and such’…don’t you think you should bring up ‘this and that’ instead. But that’s a bit different than asking people you don’t know to read your essay and offer suggestions, especially when some of those people may have some inside ideas about what the board wants. </p>
<p>I don’t beleive there was any malicious intent in either the questioner or those who offered to take a look but it still doesn’t seem like a good idea…</p>
<p>If the NA was really that concerned about it being the applicants work, unfiltered, they could certainly demand it be written at a session monitored by a disinterested third party. </p>
<p>I agree that we’re making more of this than is justified. I apologize for contributing to that.</p>
<p>Wow - for my son’s Language Arts class last spring, the teacher had each student bring in an essay question from the school they wanted to attend. My son didn’t have the academy questions yet, but could find the ones for the senators online so used that. They wrote the essay, had their parents review it, had classmates review it, and the teacher corrected it. For the most part, that’s the essay he submitted to his senators. Should we tell the teacher that in the future she should not assign this assignment to students considering an SA? Make everyone do the common application? </p>
<p>PS - I’m a West Point grad, so feel I know a bit about honor, and don’t see a problem with this. As far as I know, the honor code doesn’t apply before you’re a cadet (mid)! Now obviously if you plagiariaze something right off the internet, or pay someone to write your essay for you, it doesn’t say much about your honor overall (or as a future cadet/mid), and if someone found out, I think it would eliminate you from consideration. But asking someone to look it over? Seems like common sense and a good idea to me!</p>
<p>I’m with WP and Momathome on this one. Not a good idea for many reasons. First off, while the honor concept does not yet apply, doing the ‘right’ thing does. Secondly, I may be old school but I feel that an essay should be the sole output of the applying individual. I refused to even proof read the essays of my sons and they were accepted in every school to which they applied, including the Naval Academy. (Don’t ask me how I knew my other son’s answer for Cal Tech to the most influentia book he had ever read, was “The Little Engine That Could”). Even if there are degrees of "right"ness, I am sure the OP could have found many reliable sources in his school and community to proof for grammar and syntax, etc. The reason to post on this forum was for inside information. It would be very naive to assume that anyone with true inside information would be so irresponsible as to divulge it so readily. The only thing available on this forum is probably opinions and anecdotal information, where the OP will get what he has paid for.</p>
<p>Just to make my pov, whatever USNA calls for is what I’m good with. I simply can’t remember what the app instructs in this regard. In any case, this subtle issue illustrates beautifully what these young men and women are tested on continuously. What is honor? What is the truth? And it’s not usually written in Reef Points.</p>
<p>Mombee - maybe I’m naive, but I took asking for help on this board to be a result of not knowing anyone in person going through the same thing. I hang out on a Disney board frequently, and people constantly submit plans, itineraries, daily schedules, etc. for others to look at or review. I can’t imagine asking a friend at home or relative for help with that - they wouldn’t at all be considering the same factors I am (crowds, special events). </p>
<p>Similarly, if a candidate doesn’t know anyone who has personally gone through this, they may just be trying to get a feel for what the academy is looking for. Not “rewrite my paper for me” but just trying to see if they’re in the ballpark. If what you say is correct and these people are trying to get help only from someone “in the know”, then yes, I would be disappointed. But I believe those people wouldn’t respond in the first place. I’d be glad to read someone’s essay and help, but my input as a mom may or may not help them (or for all I know, could end up hurting them). I might recommend they not include something that seems too personal or off-topic, and it could end up grabbing the attention of someone on the board. If I were on the board, and knew what they were looking for, obviously (to me at least!) I wouldn’t be helping other people online!</p>
<p>marcie …it seems now you’re talking about something totally different than one seeking grammar or other editing help. You’re now talking substance and proprietary direction. Right?</p>
<p>Yes, because I’m thinking that’s what they’d be looking for more on the boards. Any teacher at their school could help them with pure grammar. I’m thinking along the lines of something like (totally made up here) say they referred in their essay to a time they were out drinking with their friends and someone got hurt and how it helped them decide to stop drinking and grow up some. Based on some of the school essays, that could be a “learning/growing” point. However, if someone showed me that, I might personally question putting that on an application to an academy - since in my opinion, it could reflect more negatively on them than the subsequent “learning” would reflect positively. But for all I know, the people on the boards could relate to it and it could work in their favor to write something like that. That’s the kind of thing I was referring to when I said that although I’d probably be willing to help someone, my help might not actually “help” them.</p>
<p>Now I understand where you’re coming from and feel I wouldn’t (whether with my son or a random person) tell them what to write, but just offer opinions. That’s pretty much what I feel happened with my son when he did it for his essay in class. The teacher wrote the kinds of things any teacher would write “This isn’t clear”, “Expand on this idea more”, “Too wordy”, etc. If you’ve been in a Language Arts class, you know the comments I mean. I don’t remember his specifically, but I know I disagreed with some of her comments. My son agreed with some and not others and I can’t say his final draft was exactly what she would have approved of (what he submitted to the MOC’s, not back to her). </p>
<p>I guess I feel asking for feedback from another classmate, a teacher, a parent on these boards, even your BGO (I know some people who’ve said their BGO’s told them not to submit their essays until they looked them over - is that cheating?) may or may not be helpful. None of us know exactly what the boards want - even if by chance you WERE on a board last year, each board will be different. They’re made up of humans and everyone will have a different opinion. Other than things like spelling and grammar - and your computer can fix those for you - anything anyone else can offer is only that - an opinion. As people frequently say on these boards “you get what you paid for it!”</p>