<p>"...there are hundreds of other great schools out there that are worth full price to some of us and are NOT inferior to HYP, just different."</p>
<p>Agreed. My point, exactly. :)</p>
<p>Another thread about global warming?</p>
<p>Top schools are certainly very expensive, but aren't their list prices all below the actual cost of education, the rest being made up by endowment earnings and donations? Alums who give back are effectively amortizing the actual cost of their education. Thus, adults subsidize youth, which is as it should be, and we're all better off. We may remark that education is expensive, but should we really complain?</p>
<p>off on a tangent to Bethievt:</p>
<p>Interesting about the Stanford post-doc. I just talked to a Stanford graduate who said that one of the things he liked best at Stanford were the courses designed and taught entirely by....graduate students. He took several when he was there. Harvard used to have courses like that but has been reducing them in favor of more faculty teaching. Can't please everybody.</p>
<p>He's still at Stanford. When he was at Harvard, he felt the UG students were being shortchanged being taught by him (very humble guy) instead of a full prof. I have gotten the impression that Harvard was going in the direction of profs teaching classes to undergads. With their huge endowment, my only question would be, "Why did it take so long?".</p>
<p>I don't think that the issue is of faculty teaching or of endowment. For example, there is only one Michael Sandel in the whole world, but 800+ undergrads want to take his course. S was very happy to be allowed into a course that was estimated to enroll only 30+ students but has nearly 300 students; he was afraid he might be lotteried out. Fortunately, the prof succeeded in lining up enough grad students to serve as TFs. The TF do not teach: they lead discussion sections. </p>
<p>The point the Stanford graduate was making is that many undergrads would actually prefer to be entirely taught by TFs. He claimed that the courses he took from the graduate students were some of the best there. The graduate student instructors were knowledgeable about their subjects (having just taken their generals) enthusiastic, fresh. And probably less intimidating than the profs. Part of the distance between undergrads and faculty at Harvard is precisely that undergrads feel more comfortable approaching their TFs than their profs. They go to Harvard because of the big name profs, but they are also easily intimidated. </p>
<p>One cannot always evaluate one's own performance accurately, especially when one knows how much work went into preparing, the difficulties finding examples, illustrations, etc... So I am not sure how to judge Stanford post-doc's own self-evaluation. He may be right that his students got a poor deal--though if he was not good at teaching as a graduate student, the mere fact of becoming a prof won't improve it. Becoming a prof has to do with getting a Ph.D.--which involves writing a dissertation, not acquiring teaching skills. Or he may be wrong, and his students were happy with his performance.</p>
<p>Students who are intimidated by anybody have no business at Harvard.</p>
<p>Haha. I've had to prod my S to go talk to his profs.</p>
<p>My experience in college many years ago was similar to what marite describes. Some of the best teachers I had were graduate student TAs. They were no slouches -- they included future chairs of the English Departments at Harvard and Yale and the German Department at Michigan. I didn't have the intimidated-by-famous-professors problem (I was actually rather good at ingratiating myself with them), but good grad students still served as an important bridge between undergraduates and big-name faculty who existed in a very rarified atmosphere.</p>
<p>There was a system where a grad student could offer a serminar that he or she would teach by himself. I met my fave grad student when he was a TA in a course I took the spring of my second year. When he gave his own seminar the fall of my fourth year, I signed up enthusiastically, as did about half of the other people from his section in the earlier class.</p>
<p>I am going to add a pair of more current contrasting grad-student anecdotes:</p>
<p>My daughter -- not a math person -- was taking a calculus class taught by a grad student. She never loved calculus -- she was thrilled to get through the class with a C -- but she thought he was a wonderful teacher, who consistently "reached" her and got her to appreciate the intellectual content and importance of what she was learning, and who convinced her that she could pass the class and didn't need to drop it when she fell behind for a while.</p>
<p>One of my cousins recently got his PhD in math from an Ivy League university. For a number of years, he had to teach undergraduate math classes like that my daughter took. He learned very quickly that he had very little interest in teaching undergraduates. This is what he said about it: "About the only enjoyment I get out of teaching is seeing the students' slow, inevitable progression from initial happiness that they have a native English-speaker teaching them to the sad realization that they would have been much better served by a teacher who didn't know English but who gave a **** about them."</p>
<p>"Some of the best teachers I had were graduate student TAs."</p>
<p>I wonder if the TAs themselves think they become better or worse teachers as they mature into profs. I suppose both.</p>
<p>I notice that we never got the "list" of the 12 or 20 colleges worth paying for. Darn it! That would have made life so much simpler.</p>
<p>Edmund Fiske's list of elite colleges or the Princeton Review Most slective list would probably be a good proxy for "bear any burden" institutions</p>
<p>Just what we all need - a proxy for a proxy. Anyway, from Georgetown University in D.C. it's time to move on and this article is just the ticket since it takes a "hot spot" look at Georgetown College in Kentucky:</p>
<p>"Making the grade - Students facing tougher entrance into universities"</p>
<p>"Destin Robinson and Emily Gaither are two of a growing number of Scott County High School students balancing extra-curricular activities, jobs, and advanced placement courses with regular student life in order to look better on college applications.</p>
<p>Entrance into college is more selective than ever, and even outstanding local students are now having to find new ways to outshine the competition. Heavier-than-average course loads and a lack of time for favorite activities are becoming normal for college-bound Scott County teens.</p>
<p>"The ACT has been the biggest thing that has been getting on my nerves," said Robinson, a senior at SCHS.</p>
<p>Robinson took the college entrance exam five or six times in an attempt to make himself as appealing as possible to his top-pick colleges. His GPA is a 4.0. Credentials such as Teen Court, Student Council, the National Honors Society, and the Governor's Scholars Program fill his college preparatory resume...
According to Robinson, he's one of five or six valedictorians at Scott County High School this year. Numerous valedictorians are part of a trend of educators who don't want to create distinctions among equally qualified students in such a competitive college market.</p>
<p>"My class rank could be a lot higher if it (grades) were weighted," said fellow senior Gaither, speaking of Scott County's policy of unweighted GPAs. Advanced placement students such as Gaither still earn college credit with their courses but don't see the increased GPA that is a reward in many schools for the extra work attached to such classes.</p>
<p>"There have been a lot of complaints about that around here," Robinson said. Colleges indicated to him that if his AP work had been weighted, he would have a GPA in the range of 4.7, rather than 4.0.</p>
<p>High schools often struggle to find a balance between rewarding students for a job well done and miring themselves in what many term "grade inflation," a phenomenon of grading so many students in a generous, positive light that colleges have a hard time differentiating between good students and the true cream of the crop.</p>
<p>Colleges are currently experiencing a bumper crop of students from which to make their selections.</p>
<p>More kids than ever are applying to college, confirmed SCHS Senior Guidance Coun_selor Lynn Henry.</p>
<p>"Schools are trying to expand, but it's not keeping up," she said. "It's supply and demand every year. We stress students taking the most rigorous classes."</p>
<p>That often means a fourth year of math, though the state technically requires only three years of the subject.</p>
<p>Just one AP class on a student's record might make the difference between making the grade for a university or being denied entry, Henry said.</p>
<p>Sending unprepared students into the university world benefits neither students nor the colleges and universities, which Henry describes as big businesses.</p>
<p>"It's a lot about the money," she said. "Schools want students to come, but they also want to know they'll be able to stay. Retention rate is important."</p>
<p>Universities estimate the likelihood a student will matriculate with them based on his or her performance not only during an often difficult senior year, but throughout the student's previous three years in high school.</p>
<p>"It's a little bit of everything for us," explained Johnnie Johnson, director of admissions at George_town College. "GPA, high school curriculum, ACT score."</p>
<p>The minimum ACT score for admission at Georgetown is 19, though last year's freshmen came into the school with an average score of 23-24 and an average high school GPA of 3.4-3.5.</p>
<p>Michelle Garth, associate director of admissions at the University of Kentucky, described her school's admissions policy as a holistic approach that stresses not only grades and good test scores, but also extra-curricular activities, student leadership ability, work experience and awards.</p>
<p>"We don't require an essay but welcome a statement from students - anything that will help us get to know them better so we can make our decisions," Garth said.
The pressure for outstanding academic records doesn't end with admission but carries through into the quest for financial aid.</p>
<p>"A lot of families get panicked over the scholarships," Johnson said. Along with UK and BCTC, Georgetown College offers need-based funds, though other scholarships are based solely on academic qualifiers.</p>
<p>Kentucky Educational Ex_cellence Scholarships, which are funded by lottery proceeds, base award amounts directly on high schoolers' yearly GPAs.</p>
<p>"My parents want to pay for college, but I don't want to put the burden on them," 17-year-old Gaither said of the pressure to obtain funds for college. Gaither will would like to attend Morehead State University next year, a school she hopes will fulfill her academic needs without sinking her into too much debt.</p>
<p>Despite the stress of getting into a school and paying the subsequent bills, Henry said recent high school graduates learn a quick lesson that getting into college is worth the trouble. "They just can't support themselves and pay for rent and meals on $6 an hour. You need certification. You need the piece of paper on the wall that means you've disciplined yourself and earned the right to come and work."</p>
<p>Last year, SCHS reported 61 percent of its graduating class intended on applying to a four-year college. An additional 5-6 percent planned on a two-year program.</p>
<p>"We'd like that to be 90 percent," Henry said."</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>The Korean situation is quite complex.</p>
<p>For anyone with serious interest, here’s a graduate thesis on the topic. The title alone is suggestive. It’s called “The Diaspora of Korean Children: A Cross-Cultural Study of the Educational Crisis in Contemporary South Korea.” It’s available online at </p>
<p><a href=“http://etd.lib.umt.edu/theses/available/etd-01042008-114251/unrestricted/umi-umt-1058.pdf[/url]”>http://etd.lib.umt.edu/theses/available/etd-01042008-114251/unrestricted/umi-umt-1058.pdf</a></p>
<p>That’s right (IMO): Korea faces an educational crisis. </p>
<p>I work with these kids, and I find their effort heroic and inspirational. (Yay, Korean high schoolers!) Many of them are also quite brilliant. It’s truly a privilege.</p>
<p>At the same time, the pressure on them to succeed is clearly excessive.</p>
<p>But the fault is not with the parents; instead, both children and parents are at the mercy of a broken system.</p>
<p>I wonder if the same could be said of our system?</p>
<p>I have always been thankful for our hs district policy which typically limits AP courses to jrs/srs and also limits the number taken to 3/yr. It allows the AP courses to be taught at a college level so as to prepare our students for college work while avoiding the adverse impacts of over extending students academically in terms of sheer workload, ie it allows them to have a teenage life. In addition, the district has avoided slipping into the grade inflation quandry so typical today. Our son had a uwgpa of less than 3.5 in his academic courses but was in the top 6% of his graduating class.</p>
<p>AND, because the AP/grading policy is noted on the hs profile sent to colleges, it seemingly has no adverse impact on college admissions.</p>
<p>An ancillary benefit seems to be that our students enter college prepped to do college work without anxiety levels in hs due to excessive workloads. And that first college course C or B does not throw them for a loop because most have experienced it before.</p>
<p>As noted above our son graduated hs with a sub 3.5 uwgpa but is a graduating senior at Rensselaer with a gpa of 3.75 as a dual compsci/cogsci major.</p>