Admissions Question: Science GPA

<p>buuuump :D</p>

<p>I'm just wondering... I want to go into business, and Sloan is one of my top choices. Math and science at my school, is very competitive. I went to a public middle school, and although there is nothing wrong with public schools in general, there was something very wrong with mine. Every year, 10+ kids would get expelled for who knows what, and oddly enough math wasn't a top priority. I tried really hard to move up in math. I worked ahead of the "smart" class and worked by myself in the back of the classroom while other students threw garbage at me. Then I got into this really great private school, and was super excited to get the oppurtunity to go to school with people that actually cared about learning and not hurting people. However, my math was not up to par with the other students (that had the money to afford private middle schools and private tutors, I might add), and was placed in the normal math class. Although I am much (much) better than the people in my math level, I cannot move up because I am already too far behind. In addition, I have taken the hardest possible science classes, and have performed okay'sh, but not wxceptionally (which is partially the result of my inferior math training). And I know that this post is getting way too long, but I'm venting, and if anyone took the time to read it thank you! Well, will not taking the hardest math classes keep me out of Sloan?</p>

<p>i guess i'll say what benjones and the others have always said:</p>

<p>they look at your "context", your whole picture. as long as they know your whole picture--what you just vented--i don't see those circumstances as being too hurtful...</p>

<p>LOL's!!! Post #20 is from earlier this year when I was self-studying Calculus AB/BC. I remember I was pretty scared/nervous. Its wierd looking at it now from the other side of the fence.</p>

<p>Yes, context is key. Also, you apply to MIT, not Sloan... we don't have any quotas by school (engineering, science, Sloan, architecture, HASS), or major.</p>

<p>This is a question for Ben Jones. Daughter has a highly idiosyncractic approach to math. She's a junior in HS and has the highest grade in the school in AP Calc, and is tutoring numerous younger kids in algebra/geometry. The deeper she gets into math the more she loves it. The catch is that so far her standardized test scores disconnect from her affinity and her performance in class. She's testing in the mid 600's on math in the PSAT/SAT preps. If she can't pull a 700 on math SAT should she even apply?</p>

<p>@Mombot: I don't know what kind of answer you're looking for, so I will provide multiple. :)</p>

<p>If you look at the Common Data Set, you'll see that ~11% of students at MIT got less than a 700. That number may be small, but it's definitely significant.</p>

<p>The more important thing to remember, however, is context. Maybe your daughter is just a poor test-taker... that's okay. Maybe she's just so far into mathematics that she can't remember the basic stuff, and that's okay too.</p>

<p>Speaking as an SAT tutor, I can testify that the SAT math is more about tricking you than it is testing your mathematical aptitude. It's testing your ability to recognize shortcuts and see things from different points of view. That's why it's called the SAT Reasoning Test, because it's more of a test of reasoning skills than mathematical aptitude, and a lot of those "reasoning" skills are learned. It sounds like you may have looked into this, but definitely pick up some prep books (although NOT those horrible SparkNotes ones... Princeton Review and Barrons are fairly good) and do those practice tests over and over, trying to see common things the SAT checks for.</p>

<p>Also, if you think about it, your daughter's AP Calculus grade represent a school year (usually 36 weeks) of ability, whereas her SAT represents about 3.6 hours (it's gotten so much longer now, too. Blegh). In terms of mathematical aptitude, the AP calc will test what you know far more than the Math SAT I or even SAT II.</p>

<p>And of course, there is The One All Important Statistic (tm): The acceptance rate of people who don't apply is 0%. If your daughter honestly believes she'd fit at MIT, and that she would prosper there, she has no reason to withold an application.</p>

<p>Something about the place really grabbed her when she visited.</p>

<p>Hi mombot,</p>

<p>Yes, if the rest of the application is strong, mid-600's will not be a deal-breaker. That said, your daughter may indeed get a 700 - I've seen it happen before, where someone does much better on "the real thing" than on practice tests and PSAT's.</p>

<p>I unfortunately got a B in both sophomore and junior chem. It was really a combination of REALLY bad luck and slacking after the bad luck.
but i am hardcore into science, do you think my robotics experience could compensate?</p>

<p>First of all, are freshman year grades counted?
Second of all, my situation is somewhat similar to that of SalikSyed, although I have an A+ in junior physics. However, I won first place at RoboCup Junior last summer and might visit the MIT AI Lab during the spring as a result. How much would my robotics experience compensate?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>bring
up
my
post</p>

<p>yes mombot, i think with a bit of practice your daughter can easily break the 700 barrier (4 problems wrong). I got 650-700 on PSAT and practice tests, but on the real thing i came out with an 800. It's all about being in the right mindset and being self-aware as you are doing the math to avoid careless mistakes and errors in reasoning. Although I did not do anything but take a couple practice tests, I would really recommend Barron's math workbook to you. The few problems that are keeping her from breaking 700 can be extensively practiced so on the real thing she can perform to her best ability. It may just be specific question types (for me it was rate and permutation probs) that are throwing her off. Good luck :).</p>

<p>This kid...we were walking dogs this evening and she was going on about how she got a packet of AP Physics problems (physics B--non-calculus based) and she got into it and started motoring away and solved everything except for the multiplication. To her chagrin 4x8 is NOT 24!!!!!!!! I had to laugh about that--she is far better with detail than anybody else in our house but the final details are still something she's going to have to learn to notice.</p>

<p>Ben:
How does the school consider the context. Should applicants try to tie in the difficulities in mantaining top-national stats and activities into the essay, write a sepearte not explaining the specific situation, or just hope MIT will find out the situation.</p>

<p>Context is key in every admissions decision. Make sure we understand your context as thoroughly as possible. It doesn't matter where you do this in your application - we give you a few different prompts - just use whichever is most comfortable. Some people use the essay; others use the optional space. Some bring things up during the interview.</p>

<p>But definitely don't just "hope that MIT will find out." :-)</p>

<p>Butbutbut Ben, I was under the impression that the MIT adcom was all-knowing and all-powerful. Are you implying that this is not the case?!?!?</p>

<p>Only about matchmaking, Timur. Only about matchmaking.</p>

<p>In an application, where do we mention special circumstances (for example, I have been taking college mathematics courses for several years, which has lowered my gpa and ranking at school)? Do the essay questions give enough room to elaborate on the entirety of our situations?</p>

<p>Does MIT also recognize foreign achievements (I have a silver medal in the Chinese Mathematical Olympiad)?</p>

<p>All comments are welcome! Thanks for your help!</p>

<p>Wow. That's some mighty powerful thread necromancy.</p>

<p>Yes, MIT recognizes a lot of things. You should definitely give your perspective on things that affect your GPA. The application has an extra box that specifically exists for the sole purpose of mentioning anything you feel you should mention.</p>