<p>I'm a senior who is in-state and definitely interested in W/M, but something has irked me a bit since I've started browsing these boards - and that's the emphasis put on certain classes. Most people who ask on the boards about how to improve their chances/what their chances are often are told that Physics, Calculus, and Chemistry are huge boosts/must haves. What about students who are extremely focused into a certain subject or aren't really interested in math/science?</p>
<p>For example, I'd consider myself competitive and will have taken about 10 APs by the time I graduate, but I have not taken Calculus or Physics. I am not a math/science person and my interests lie pretty much solely in humanities-oriented subjects (which I think my transcript reflects). I've still taken the full 4 years of math, language, etc., but I've just chosen disciplines I'm more interested in, such as AP Stats and AP Enviro. Would those decisions hurt my chances?</p>
<p>We consider physics, calculus and the fourth level of a single foreign language to be among the most challenging courses a high school student can take and they often go above and beyond what high schools require of students to graduate. Additionally because W&M is a liberal arts university and our students our required to take courses across the curriculum regardless of major we like to see that students can do well outside of their comfort areas. Just as we ask humanities students to take physics and calculus we ask math/sci students to take higher levels of foreign language. Additionally, while we don’t list advanced English and social science courses among our benchmark courses we like to see applicants take those as well, regardless of their area of interest.</p>
<p>Having 10 APs is great…certainly challenging. We just like to see balance in them (meaning that some are in the humanities and some are in math and science). Not having physics and calc might make you a little less competitive in that one area of review but you may be more competitive in another (say your grades and humanities curriculum). If we want to admit you, your lack of physics and calc won’t stop us from doing so but we will continue to recommend these courses because of the challenge they present to students.</p>
<p>the reality is that many W&M applicants have physics, calculus, and chemistry, so if you don’t have them, other people will out perform you in that regard. That’s not to say you can’t be admitted. You obviously still can. W&M gets a lot of talented applicants, and many of them have taken these advanced classes.</p>
<p>AP Stats and AP Enviro are generally regarded as easy AP courses… surely you cannot be suggesting that these courses should be viewed the same as AP Calc or AP Chem/Physics.</p>
<p>When the admissions office looks at your application, they will ask themselves if you took the most challenging classes in each subject. If your math and science max out at AP Stats and AP Enviro, then the answer for those subjects will be “no”</p>
<p>How is AP Biology viewed? I’m doing 6 AP classes this year (my senior year), and for my AP science I’m doing Biology. Last year I took honors physics and got an A. At my school, AP Physics and Bio are just about the same regarding diificulty. But does W&M see Bio as weaker?</p>
<p>We do consider AP Physics one of the hardest classes a high school student can take but we also recognize that might vary by school and/or teacher. If you took bio, chem, physics and then AP Bio that’s just fine.</p>
<p>Wow, that reply was quick - thanks for such a fast response.</p>
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<p>That was exactly my point, though. I wasn’t arguing that I was on the same level (or someone who didn’t take those classes) in regards to math or science but, rather, I had taken a number of APs - whether they were considered easy or not - in the areas I was interested in to challenge myself while remaining interested. I understand the point brought up by the admissions officer, but I still think it’s somewhat unfair that such emphasis (at least appears) to be placed in these courses.</p>
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<p>I would argue that whether an AP course is easy or hard depends entirely on the school/teacher rigor, since it tends to vary, but that’s totally separate from here. My point isn’t that they be considered at the same level, but that students who have other interests (like myself) aren’t necessarily looked down upon as having taken an easy way out because I did not take classes that really don’t appeal to me.</p>
<p>Either way, I can see your point and the point made by W/M Admission, but I was merely pointing out that it appeared a huge emphasis was placed on these classes - which revolve around math and science - rather than other advanced areas in other interests. And again, I think rigor comes into play - you said, for example, AP Enviro was considered easy, yet at my school, physics is generally seen as a joke class whereas AP Enviro, while certainly not on the level of AP Physics or AP Chem, is seen as a class of moderate difficulty/rigor.</p>
<p>A lot of times potential applicants are asking what they can do to improve their chances, and the answer from W&M Admissions is to add those challenging courses. Lack of certain courses is not going to get a person denied admission, but rather the opposite…the addition of challenging courses may help. You certainly may have a strong enough application that you won’t need those courses. Admissions considers many factors, including what a person can bring to the student body, not just for a rigorous course load.</p>
<p>nickgb - it’s not that you would be looked down on. It is that many other applicants will have those classes. If you got a pass from admissions if you “don’t enjoy” AP Calc, then everyone would write on their application that they don’t enjoy whatever the classes are that they do worst in.</p>
<p>and, admittedly, some of high school (and college, and a job) is “jumping through the hoops” that you have to in order to progress, even if you don’t enjoy them.</p>
<p>The odd thing is that it would be entirely possible to fulfill W&M’s math GRE with a class about “airplane math.” And you can totally avoid physics, chem, and bio for the science GRE!</p>
<p>But that’s once you’re admitted.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, I know someone who was admitted without Calculus and without any AP classes, but she was a gifted a capella singer.</p>
Aside from strengthening an application, a good reason to take AP Lit - and any AP humanities classes - is that they really do prepare students to analyze material and write on a college level. There’s a world of difference from high school to high school in the quality of AP classes, but a good AP teacher can help students get off to a strong start in college. </p>
<p>Another FWIW - my d3 was admitted to W & M without physics, although she did take 5 science courses in hs, including AP Bio and AP Chem. She didn’t take an AP language, either (which would have been Latin in her case). The physics teacher at our hs was known to be less effective than his colleagues. D3 thought she already had a challenging senior curriculum, including AP Bio, AP Calc, AP Lit, and 2 SUPA (Syracuse University college-level) courses in social sciences. Her curriculum would not have stood out in the applicant pool as being especially rigorous, but it was rigorous enough for an ED acceptance.</p>
<p>AP Lit is important in that it’s a challenging class that can add to the rigor of your schedule. That being said if you have a lot of other AP courses and therefore don’t take AP Lit your schedule might still be considered rigorous.</p>