<p>Any of you current or former Harvard students or Harvard parents have any insights regarding applying for Advanced Standing? Is this a good thing to do? Our sense is that it is relatively rare. The prospect of graduating in three years and thus saving $50,000 is admittedly somewhat attractive.</p>
<p>I've never heard of anyone who did it, even if they could have. Most people really want to spend 4 years here--yes, the academics are part of the Harvard experience, but you also get so much out of your relationships with other people, extracurricular activities, other opportunities Harvard provides, etc. I wouldn't give up one of my four Harvard years for anything. I'm sure people do it, though, or else they wouldn't have the option.</p>
<p>^^What she said.</p>
<p>Daughter finished high school with nine APs and scored eight fives and one four on the exams, but she never applied for any sort of advanced standing. She wanted the whole Harvard experience.</p>
<p>^^^Ditto.</p>
<p>Many students would love nothing more than spending several more years at Harvard. There are so many courses one could take, so many activities one could participate in. Some students actually opt for Advanced Standing early on, then drop it in their junior year.</p>
<p>I believe you! My sense was that it was rarely done and your explanations make complete sense to me. D is not pushing for this. I admit dollar signs played a role in my inquiry. </p>
<p>Since I have the attention of some Wise Ones, let me ask another question -- is it hard for Harvard undergraduates to find good trajectories as far as post-graduate programs elsewhere? In other words, how do you "top" Harvard with your follow-up med school or PhD program, etc.? I know there are a zillion great programs at great schools all over the place. But in terms of general "flow" of your trajectory, where do Harvard graduates go after Harvard? Do many stay on for law school? Med school? Or does that "look bad" as it did when my H pursued his doctorate - is it still considered important to seek a graduate degree some place other than where you attended as an undergrad?</p>
<p>And if anyone is still wading through this turgid post, I have one more question - do the Harvard undergrads work extremely hard? I'm not concerned about social life. Obviously, Cambridge is the absolutely quintessential college town and opportunities for fun are plentiful. What I'm a little worried about is just plain burn out. Our D is certainly smart, loves to learn, but she is beyond tired. Very competitive high school. Extremely tough load of courses. Demanding ECs. She has been sleep-deprived for about three straight years. I'm honestly concerned that she be able to catch her breath, slow down, smell the roses just a tad. In other words, is Harvard more of the same high school craziness that it took to get into Harvard? Is grading really tough? Do kids sleep ? Is there a huge sense of pressure to be brilliant every second?</p>
<p>D has declared her intention to go to Harvard. She is unequivocal. I know she belongs there - she has that muscular sort of intelligence and clarity of vision that the school personified for me when we visited. I am having protective mother moments here, though. Acceptance at this school requires so much - is attending sentencing yourself to a lifetime of continuous and relentless over-achieving? </p>
<p>Yeah. Just a little worried. We lost the post card somewhere in the jumble of our messy house and I have the logon for her to accept online and she's coming home really late (prom night). </p>
<p>Someone please just tell me your kid at Harvard is very smart but not Einstein and managed to sleep 6 or 7 hours most nights. I really will feel better.</p>
<p>Thank you, Oh Wise Ones.</p>
<p>Cut the Harvard experience from 4-years to 3 may not be very attractive. What about the option to get a master (in addition to Bachelor) degree in 4 years with Advanced Standing? My D is thinking about it. Can any one offer some inside opinion on it?</p>
<p>The nice thing about college is that you don't have to be in school at 7:30 AM. My kid has roommates that stay up late and roommates that don't. The ones that tend to stay up late generally schedule late classes, thus they can get the sleep if they want it.</p>
<p>Grading is tough in some areas such as the sciences. It's fairly tough to get all A range grades, which many if not most Harvard students achieved in high school. No one talks about grades. No one knows who is first in the class, etc. No one cares.</p>
<p>Some kids kick back once they're into Harvard. Some continue on the same endless sleep-deprived cycle that they experienced in high school. Everyone is different, but I don't think it's any different at Harvard than it is at any other competitive school. </p>
<p>And my kid is not Einstein.</p>
<p>I feel I had a similar high school experience as your daughter, mammall...overachieving, a million activities, little sleep, and an intensely competitive academic environment where after every test, people would immediately ask how you did and people were predicting who would be ranked in the top ten as early as middle school. Yeah, it was crazy. Coming to Harvard was honestly a relief--I had fears much like you do that it would be the same hypercompetitive environment, but I have yet to encounter that. No one cares what grades you're getting--it's more like people are concerned with how happy they personally are with their own academic success, not how the people around them are doing. </p>
<p>One great thing about first semester freshman year is you have to take four classes--you're not allowed to take 5. Doing that forces students to chill out a little and get used to college life and Harvard, so you don't get too stressed out or overwhelmed. There is definitely not the kind of pressure you feel in a competitive high school-you're so much more free academically, and you can craft a schedule that meets your needs (including making sure you get sleep).</p>
<p>Mammal, my Harvard experience was that it was much less work than high school. It may have changed since my day, but I doubt it's changed that much. Your experience can vary by what courses you choose to take. You can certainly make it hard if you put your mind to it. I thought it was generally very easy to get a B, a little less easy to get A's.</p>
<p>Trajectory? Some kids choose to stay at Harvard - I actually tend to think that's a mistake. I don't think it looks bad, I just think it's good to be exposed to new people and new views. One of my best friends went on to do Art History at Yale, and said the two schools had diametrically opposite approaches. Interestingly, Yale was really much better suited to her interests.</p>
<p>People go all over the place - there are plenty of other good professional schools (I went on to study architecture at Columbia, largely because I wanted to be in NYC, my husband got a PhD. from Caltech.) One sister-in-law went to U. of Michigan for a PhD. in English, a brother went to Brown for a Masters. Another brother decided a BA was all he needed. As far as I can tell kids are amking similar choices.</p>
<p>When I was at Harvard students who took sophomore standing could choose to stay for a fourth year and get a Master's and graduate with their class. Both students that I know who had sophomore standing took this option. The main disadvantage of sophomore standing is that you have to declare a major sooner. Although I think I'd have had a better chance of getting into History and Lit straight out of high school than I did at the end of freshman year. Of course, by then, I was pretty sure I didn't want to do it, even though I still applied. I also applied to VES which was a much better fit as it turned out. I'm glad I had a year to figure that out.</p>
<p>Most people at Harvard aren't brilliant every second, but I did meet one. He was pretty amazing. I came away from lunch thinking, "so that's genius". It was invigorating, not intimidating. He got a MacArthur fellowship later BTW.</p>
<p>PS Even though you only have to take four courses, I often had fun auditing courses whose subject matter interested me, but not enough to do the homework, or write the papers. I highly recommend it.</p>
<p>My D is a Harvard sophomore. Plenty smart, not Einstein. She could get 6 or 7 hours of sleep if she cared to, but a time-consuming extra-curricular, a more than adequate social life, and poor time-management skills do prevent it at times. (Oh, and you might want to advise your D not to date someone with a really really light course load if she is planning to take a more rigorous one. Trust me, it's not a good idea at least for a freshman!) My D is working much harder than she did at her big mediocre public high school, but yours should be fine, Mammall.</p>
<p>Thank you, Oh Wise Ones, I kiss your collective feet. I am reassured. I am going to work on D through the summer to convince her to be AT Harvard, not ON TOP at Harvard. It will be okay. I have faith. In fact, for some kids perhaps Harvard is really the only college on the planet where they can relax and just be part of the mix because the it is . . . Harvard.</p>
<p>(nceph - so appreciate the word on the boy friend with the lighter schedule - that is very much part of the sleep problem D is having in high school. Her BF is quite smart but not the driver she is in tems of schedule and she adores being with him and he keeps late hours and she needs to study and write papers, and the result is ZERO sleep. We just love him to death but I'm glad they will be at different colleges next year.)</p>
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In fact, for some kids perhaps Harvard is really the only college on the planet where they can relax and just be part of the mix because the it is . . . Harvard.
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<p>Congrats, mammall. I'm glad your D has made the decision. (I envy you that!) Based on your posts, I would have been surprised had your D not chosen Harvard. </p>
<p>Remember though, it's a college populated by humans, not nirvana. ;)</p>
<p>I must admit that my D who is a sophomore busts her butt most of the time, being premed. Getting A's isn't easy - unfortunately this is what med schools expect. Between working in paid research at a hospital, tutoring, working at the gym and various EC's, she is pretty tied up. Before she went there, she got the "talk" from several students - one who had won the intel science fair. Its probably something all new students should hear. Basically, it is that you may have been number 1 in high school but don't expect it here. Unfortunately many students expect it and I believe its a source of discontent that some students feel. Whatever the work load etc, my D loves it there!</p>
<p>Mammall -</p>
<p>D2 (HS junior) spent her recent spring break living with her big sis at Harvard and doing the whole college thing. And she experienced for one week the exhilarating ride that is busy undergrad life at Harvard.</p>
<p>Both girls are talented musicians, so while D2 is packing for her trip D1 calls her up and says "You're a good sight reader aren't you? Better bring your concert black dress." On the way back from meeting her at the Boston airport D1 says "Change into your concert black on the way while you look over this sheet music. We're short-handed, so you're playing in my orchestra's concert tonight." (D1 plays in three different Harvard orchestras.)</p>
<p>After that thrill it's on to some other meet-up with friends where (both still in the concert clothes) they go off to some social function. Then back to the dorm at midnight where D1 tackles a problem set with some different friends.</p>
<p>It went on and on like that all week - going from class to rehearsal to study group to party to library to you name it. D1 works pretty hard. She is a Physics concentrator which is a rigorous course of study. The high school A student has become a college B student. I'm not sure what she's going to do post-graduation. She only recently decided that her future lies in robotics, so now she is looking into that.</p>
<p>D2's visit coincided with Housing Day, so thanks to her sister she got to pretend she was a Harvard junior instead of a high school junior and she helped welcome the incoming freshman House members. The other girls in the House painted her face in House colors and she cheered in the newcomers along with the rest. For the whole visit she had a wonderful time - and a far more authentic experience than any canned Prefrosh Day events. She came back thinking that she would apply for admission after all. Since middle school she has always insisted she did NOT want to go to Harvard (to be different from big sis). But after having "gone to the show," she's now all for it. Now I can only hope that lightning will indeed strike our house twice.</p>
<p>If you do adv. standing, go for AB/AM. That way, you get 4 years at harvard, but 2 degrees.</p>
<p>Also, depending on your field if you take graduate level courses in your concentration before the end of junior year you can use them to exempt yourself from those classes in your fourth AB/AM year. Definitely consider it if your respective department allows it.</p>
<p>My daughter had fallen in love with Harvard only after a friend had invited her to a freshman formal when she was a junior in high school. Before that the thought of going to Harvard was abhorent to her. By the way, she finds the whole grade inflation thing laughable as she doesn't know anybody with all A's or even close to all A's.</p>
<p>Actually, D1 was not one of these kids who grew up obsessed with Harvard. In fact it was not until her junior year of high school that the thought of applying even occurred to her. After the SAT scores came in, I pointed out to her that she was in the ballpark for Harvard if she cared to try for it. But she really didn't fall in love until after she visited the campus in the summer before her senior year. I was focused on Princeton at the time, but after visiting, P got at best a polite yawn from her.</p>
<p>I was slightly dismayed that she was so taken with Harvard, because of the very low chance of getting accepted (not that P was a whole lot better), plus I could tell that if she got into both H and P she would choose H, spoiling <em>my</em> big dreams for her. But it has worked out great for her. She's had a wonderful time, and I learned not to rely on the outdated school reputations and stereotypes you hear so often on CC.</p>
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If you do adv. standing, go for AB/AM. That way, you get 4 years at harvard, but 2 degrees.</p>
<p>Also, depending on your field if you take graduate level courses in your concentration before the end of junior year you can use them to exempt yourself from those classes in your fourth AB/AM year. Definitely consider it if your respective department allows it.
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<p>The AB/AM option seems much more popular than the 3 year graduation option (as someone who's just finishing up my third year, there's no way I'm ready to leave!). Either option requires <strong>lots</strong> of careful planning when it comes to class selection (that, or semesters taking 5/6 classes)... just not room for many electives at all.</p>
<p>Bah, I'd rather do interesting ECs than electives anyway :P</p>
<p>(Plus, one of my ECs - research - would have significant overlap with my coursework)</p>
<p>For people like me, electives = amazing. I'd have missed out so much if my Harvard academic experience was just my class + cores.</p>