Advantages of Attending USNA

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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<p>There are loads of really great insights here on the "difference" notion. Let me offer a couple thoughts.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>For some there may be an inclination to naively perceive a SA educational experience as merely college in uniform. With some professional military training, make that alot of training thrown in around it. Thus the comparison of Stanford, Rice, etc. vs. a Service Academy. It might be more appropriate, in order to see it as some have suggested, enlisting in the Service and being sent for training that includes completing a BS degree as part of that. In the end, it's dramatically different than even the most rigorous ROTC experience, I suspect. Note, I'm offering "different" as the key descriptor.</p></li>
<li><p>Both the formal and informal learning opportunities could hardly be more different than what one might experience @ a secular institution. In other words, history ain't just history, politics aren't so much science, and perhaps even mechanical engineering isn't @ USNA what it is @ GA Tech. Why? Various things that might include:</p></li>
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<p>A. Who teaches. Be they active duty officers or tenureable civilians, their perspective will in nearly every case be dramatically different than their peers @ secular U. And in virtually all subjects, even the sciences, point of view is everything in the enlightenment.</p>

<p>B. Who else teaches. It's often been noted that students learn from their peers as much or more as from profs. Well, the student bodies @ these places are anything but a similar random sample of kids going to Harvard or Cal or Michigan or ... take your pick. Virtually any secular U. This is like apples and oranges, not like Forrest claims as peas and carrots. Dramatically different set of values.</p>

<p>C. What are the intended outcomes? They are literally worlds apart what learning goals and objectives might be in English @ a SA vs. English @ Middlebury.</p>

<p>D. How the subjects are taught, evaluated, and the materials used. I'm betting SA's have a uniquely challenging task finding accurate history books to use. Both in terms of factual information and political perspective.</p>

<p>So while there's a superficial likeness between SAs and secular institutions, they are far, far disparate from each other.</p>

<p>Now, does that mean that boys can't and won't be mean spirited boys, even graduating from USNA? Of course not. Look at these young men about to be ex-communicated for dishonoring their band of brethren. Does it mean they are all astoundingly educated and wonderfully wise? Of course not. Look at Jimmy Carter. (I couldn't help myself. The good news here is that he's about to become dislodged from being nearly unanimously acknowledged as the most horrific president of the modern era.)</p>

<p>But more directly to the point, using this latter illustration, JC may have friends in Annapolis, but my guess is most NA profs would see his reign of terror as that. And so would most Mids, I suspect, with relative few abberations.</p>

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<p><a href="4">quote</a> Preferences in Duty Assignments - They go to Academy grads first and then to ROTC grads.

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<p>that is 100% not true, after graduation, everybody is on the same level, Academy grad or ROTC grad. The same is true with the other branches. I have spoken to officers who have gone both routes. Once you graduate, it doesn't matter where u went to school</p>

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<p>Yes, oldegrad's point of duty and specific platform remains essentially on target. I'm unaware of how and when ROTC Midshipmen have their professional field and initial assignment determined.</p>

<p>That noted, I have to wonder, and confess to chuckling about the following point:</p>

<p>
[quote]
...after graduation, everybody is on the same level, Academy grad or ROTC grad. ... Once you graduate, it doesn't matter where u went to school

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</p>

<p>Perhaps there may be some literal/legalistic accuracy to that ideal, but the political realities are evidently otherwise. Even picking their noses, those USNA rings get noticed by those in positions to influence that needed key assignment and upper-echelon promotions, especially as those loftier steps become increasingly a function of who-knew-who-when. As one said so well of them, there is no "random" promotion.</p>

<p>I've heard, and probably rightly so, the perception that a specific ROTC commissioned officer out of Notre Dame or Duke or Cornell or Penn State might, can and often does as well or even exceeds his/her USNA counterpart(s). However, the bigger, mega picture illustrates a rather different scenario pointing to conclusions about the extraordinary value of a USNA pedigree vs. any other specific institution or multiples there of. It's a no-brainer. Said another way, given a particular senior level slot to be filled by a career-focused officer, the likelihood that the appointee will be commissioned at USNA vs. an ROTC campus, has to be significant if not astronomical. There will simply be more viable USNA candidates in the pool. </p>

<p>But even if it were one of each ...the bias of the key decision-makers would undoubtedly continue to give the advantage to USNA. </p>

<p>Lastly, to reemphasize an earlier point ... Does all this mean that the NYU ROTC grad can't have a stellar military career ultimately becoming the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs? Obviously not.</p>

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<p>So...let me throw out a question that is raging in my household at the moment. My son has applied to both USNA and USMA - received a nom for USNA but no appointment as of yet. (Math scores are good but not stellar) BGO said he was Triple Q - USNA says file is still being reviewed....USMA says he is Triple Q and they actively chased him but he didn't get nomination. Has also received a full NROTC scholarship to 1st choice school BUT they want a Tier 2 major and he wants Poli Sci/minor in Arabic - (his dream is Marine Corps/special forces/intelligence). Now, Army has notified him that he has an ArmyROTC that is his for the asking...no major specified!</p>

<p>Would anyone who has knowledge of policies please advise - should he take ROTC and reapply to acadamies (and how does ROTC feel about that once he has accepted their offer?) Should he tell USNA that he wants to go Marine or is that taboo? (He has told them about his desire to learn Arabic and we were told that should be a plus in his favor.) Does it do any good to push for NAPS if the math scores are the only thing that is of concern? (He is not a minority or a recruited athlete.) He tried to contact his BGO for advice but just got back a voice mail saying that he was out of the loop and to contact Admissions but my son doesn't want to bug them too much. Realistically, how many slots are still open at this point? </p>

<p>Lots of questions, I know, and I realize that there is no perfect answer but I am learning a lot from seeing all of the discussions about all of the different options. Thanks for your input...</p>

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<p>First off, I would recommend that your son accept one of the ROTC scholarships. If he ends up receiving his appointment, he can rescind the ROTC scholarship. The paperwork on my daughter's NROTC scholarship specifically stated that it was OK to do so last year.<br>
The Navy LT was very nice when she later turned it down to accept her appointment.</p>

<p>If he is willing to serve in the Army and the major is too big a deal, then maybe Army is the right choice. If his desire is to serve in the Navy/Marine Corps, and he has no interest in serving in the Army, then perhaps his long term goal should weigh more in the decision.</p>

<p>I am not a BGO, but I cannot see how it could be harmful for your son to make it clear that he would be willing to accept an offer to NAPS. However, it was my (possibly incorrect) understanding that NAPS is not an option for someone who is already 3Q. Clarification from BGOs or NAPSters/NAPS parents??</p>

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<p>2012 is correct. Neither can a candidate lobby for NAPS nor can he/she be offered a slot as a 3Q candidate. The ROTC guys are well versed in dealing nicely with those who accept ROTC offers while later rescinding that acceptance due to an Academy appointment. They understand and there aren't negative repercussions that we know of.</p>

<p>Perhaps backup a bit and ask what is most important here? Then go with it. btw, I'd personally not place any real value in trying to link majors and minors to active duty career aspirations. They simply don't exist for the most part. And be assured that even in ROTC Mids, they change majors.</p>

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<p>WhistlePig and 2012:</p>

<p>Thanks for the input - it is all helpful and my son appreciates the wisdom of those who have "been there and done that"! At this point, he is still holding out hope for a direct appointment to USNA, which remains his first choice...followed by NAPS if offered. He has never gotten a clear response on 3Q status-his BGO said yes he was, but the regional director said no, because of his math scores. Recently, however, a different person in admissions told him that his file hadn't been looked at since October and was still pending another review. USMA did send an official notification that he was fully qualified and have told that he can't be considered for MAPS because of that.</p>

<p>WhistlePig - my specific question about ROTC, if you know, is whether he should even mention to them that he will most likely reapply to the acadamies next year, even if he has a year of ROTC completed. Would that, in any way, affect the payment of his tuition, etc by ROTC? (The school he has selected is way out of our price range and I don't want him to get there and then have ROTC tell us that they're not going to cover his first year.)</p>

<p>As to whether he should take NROTC or AROTC, I guess he has to decide which service will offer him more options in his desired area of service, which remains Special Forces on the ground...(just what every mother wants to hear!) Another thread on here has posted about the people he would command in the Marines vs Army and that is definitely a factor that he has considered. That also factors into his choice of majors-the Navy really wants math/science minded individuals and while my son is certainly competent in those areas, it is not where his passions lie...so, as I said before, lots of choices available and lots of decisions to be made!</p>

<p>(WhistlePig- reading through your commentary on the differences of attending a SA over a secular U really brings it home for me...I know my son and I know his deep and abiding desire to serve his country and I am just really praying that somehow it will work out for him to go to Annapolis. He understands the honor of attending and is not looking for personal glory but there is no category for that in the application vs someone who is applying because it will look great on a resume and they'll just do their five and dive...)</p>

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<p>Statick - Are you really Rice, Stanford qualified? I know of a friend who 2400'd the SAT and got rejected from Stanford. Also, Stanford offers no merit based scholarship. Is that what you want? Is the military life something you really want? I'm a junior in highschool and I dont' believe my self to be Stanford qualified, although I'm the number one ranked student in my class (weighted GPA and non-weighted). Even though I've got multiple serious extracurricular activities, I'm not even interested in Stanford. Are you applying to Rice and Stanford for status? Then you're going the wrong route - you'll torture yourself for four years. If your interested in status, then I can't see why you'd be interested in USNA at all. I am highly interested in being a part of something great, and doing something with my life that I can look back upon with pride. I want to challenge myself mentally, physically, and emotionally until i reach a breaking point. Thats why I want to go to USNA. Why do you? Whats your reason? What motivates you?</p>

<p>ROTC vs USNA - I'm applying for ROTC scholarships as well, as soon as they become available for my 2010 graduating year. They're my back up plan, actually, if I failed to get accepted to USNA. If I fail to get accepted to NROTC, then I always have national merit scholarships and can attend a state school and go through their college ROTC program and hopefully, join the US Navy. As I hope you can see, I've thought this through many times. I've heard that USNA graduates have a larger pool of billets. I recall reading somewhere that USNA gets HALF OR MORE of the officer billets for Special Warfare, of which I am highly interested (the rest going to ROTC, OSC, and special programs). I've also heard from my friend, who is graduating this year, that "Rotzy (ROTC) guys have no ****ing clue what the military is like". But he goes on to say that after a year, they're assimilated. I'm not sure if this is true, but I'm just relaying what I hear from actual students.</p>

<p>I still can't answer the question regarding the NROTC switch to USNA after a year thing, but I'm sure that it would be covered under the scholarship. I recall reading somewhere the only time you had to pay back the NROTC scholarship was if you quit junior year? Yeh. Same with USNA - if you quit then, I'm sure that you have to pay for your education (summer cruises and all).</p>

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<p>You have no obligation with the NROTC scholarship until your sophomore year in college.</p>

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<p>
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"I want to challenge myself mentally, physically, and emotionally until i reach a breaking point. Thats why I want to go to USNA."

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<p>Lots of "I" in your self-description. But yours may not be consistent with the notion of "I" day.</p>

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<p>@couyang About being stanford qualified. I'm probably not. M 740 CR 690 W 640 3.9 unweighted GPA, 10th class rank. Really good athlete (Could run at a D I school). I took the SAT again, so scores might change. But even if I did have better SAT's, I have never been very attracted to Stanford as a school. I'm not sure at this point if I will apply to Stanford, maybe a campus visit will change my mind.</p>

<p>Honestly right now I don't know what I want to do will the rest of my life. However, I know that where ever I go, I want to be surrounded by competent, disciplined, intelligent individuals. I have done alot of thinking, and since the degree of uncertainty I have about my future, I am now leaning away from attending USNA. The lifestyle that goes long with being in the military is appealing to me, and I would be happy serving my country, but to me applying, and attending if accepted seems like taking a leap of faith with my life and I am currently reluctant to do that. </p>

<p>However, I am attending the summer seminar at USNA to further inform my decision, so I am trying to keep all the doors open. But, I am not a person dead set, on joining the military, and this is my biggest reason for leaning away from attending USNA.</p>

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<p>@ statick </p>

<p>THATS EXACTLY HOW I FELT for about 10 years of my life. People always try and tell you what you should become. Sorry if was being a downer, GO FOR STANFORD AND RICE if you think you can get it man. I just have a thing against stanford =(. Anyways, I always wanted to make a lot of money and then retire early and hang out with my friends. But when I went back to China for a month before my sophmore year, I saw my dad visit the grave of his parents and start crying. Watching your dad cry changes you. When I got back to the States, I wanted to do something that he, and myself, could be proud of. I looked seriously into the Army, but when a mid came to talk to us at my school, I was sold on the Navy. The American tradition of its armed forces is impressive indeed. Good luck in your soul searching. Go to USNA's Summer Seminar, or maybe any other academy's summer program and see if they're for you. You need to talk to people IN the military and see if thats what you want. godspeed.</p>

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<p>Wow. That's very disrespectful to ROTC mids and cadets. I'm surprised you repeated it. But you could look at it this way - it only takes ROTC Midshipmen one year to learn what it takes four years to learn at USNA.</p>