Advantages of Liberal Arts Colleges?

College Search & Selection
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<p>My daughter's choices were between a couple of small research universities, a handful of LAC's and a couple of top UC's like UCB (instate.) She was looking for a school with serious minded and intellectual people and didn't have any interest in party atmosphere or football teams. </p>

<p>These choices were in cities, suburbs and rural areas. The quality of the schools was the first consideration. But she had a nice mini smorgasbord to choose from after acceptances. She did decide that since she went to a quite small high school (320) she decided she'd really like a larger school. She didn't want one as large as UC's. But really, after she got her Brown acceptance there wasn't much further discussion. She didn't focus on it because the acceptance rate is so low, but she was sure she wanted to go after all the letters were in. And the small urban environment suits her too--although you can walk down the hill to the city, College Hill is semi-isolated and charming.</p>

<p>Schools like Brown offer undergraduate focus with plenty of research opportunities and access to professors; if you email or go to see them it is not hard to join their research. And she is applying to grad school. but many LAC's like Macalester, Wellesley, Reed come to mind, offer research opportunities as well and have very high grad school acceptances. I have to wonder a bit how that would have been for her.</p>

<p>I think LACs are a way to get some very personal instruction through small classes and easy contact with professors and will serve you very well if you are aiming for grad school. They don't have the 2 years of weeding out that you find sometimes are large schools, they are there to support your success.</p>

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<p>There are some LAC's that are enhanced by a small university-like setting. Bucknell with 3,500 students comes to mind as a university that is an LAC but offers opportunities which allow students to perform research and have classes that are not taught by TAs. After some research, I was impressed by the number students Bucknell placed into graduate school.</p>

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<p>UVA isn't a LAC, but it offers a liberal arts education (even to Engineers, who are required to take various writing and humanities classes as part of their degree). It is a medium-sized research university where there are large classes, lots of TAs, professors typically prioritize their research over the class they are teaching, etc. But at the same time there are lots of specialized programs, many professors who hold office hours and are willing to talk about whatever if you show interest and come at a good time, etc. I really love UVA, and do not believe I would have appreciated a LAC at the time of HS graduation. As I get to higher level classes, the class size becomes smaller and there aren't TAs so it becomes more like a LAC. At the same time I love knowing that there are potentially 3,000 new awesome people to meet every year (size of incoming class... more if you include grad students), and that was one of my main concerns with choosing a school.</p>

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<p>charlie rose had a neat show tonight, and several guests mentioned the importance of education (read, higher ed) for the USA to get itself out from under the mess it is in now. I recall one person mentioning the Liberal Arts as the best kind of education in which to get to the kind of solutions that are needed now and in the future. </p>

<p>He said that both the right and the left sides of the brain need to be engaged in order to solve the problems. Minds that can imagine things, it was remarked, are needed. Thinking clearly (fast) and communicating effectively are required for success in the world. Here I recall Einstein's famous words that imagination is more important than facts.</p>

<p>It was also said that there needs to be more study abroad in Asia, since there will be 'the weight' be in the future. Too much study abroad time is spent in Europe.</p>

<p>A</a> conversation about leadership at the Harvard Business School centennial celebration - Charlie Rose</p>

<p>Of course, one can get a Liberal Arts education at a big or medium university. The LAC is an institution that 'specializes' in this kind of learning to use a bit of an ironic language.</p>

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<p>If any interest in sports the Patriot League is a NCAA division 1 set of highly regarded LACs in the Northeast: Patriot League schools include Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Holy Cross, West Point, Naval Academy.</p>

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<p>My d attends a liberal arts college for women (Barnard), and is a neuroscience major. The setting is significant in that her participation in her lab for her senior thesis has been at a level equivalent to that of a Phd student in a University setting. Direct, hands on labe experience...no "beaker washing"-type jobs. Excellent, excellent experience!</p>

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<p>ADVANTAGES OF LIBERAL ARTS COLLEGES
Liberal</a> Arts Colleges: Advantages and disadvantages of small private colleges and a liberal arts education</p>

<p>The emphasis is on the student! At state universities and colleges, faculty members are required to spend a good deal of time with their research and with graduate students. Not at a liberal arts college. Even though many faculty members do conduct research, undergraduate student education comes first.</p>

<p>Small class size. At state universities and colleges, many classes have way too many students to have discussions and to get to know the teacher. Small classes really make a difference in the quality of education.</p>

<p>Fewer registration nightmares. At large schools, students often have to fight the system to get into the classes they want or need to graduate. That happens much less frequently at small schools.</p>

<p>Good students. Well, this isn't always true, but often liberal arts colleges are competitive and attract motivated, intelligent students who value their education highly.
Access to professors. At a liberal arts college, professors get to know you. They are more likely to be in their offices, ready and eager to help you or to just chat.
Close community atmosphere. Students get to know each other well and forge close friendships for life.</p>

<p>Students don't get lost. Some students flourish at large universities, but others feel overwhelmed by the campus and the huge numbers of students. Students from small towns may feel especially overwhelmed. At a small college, you're not a number.
Students don't fall through the cracks. If a student is struggling, academically or personally, professors will probably notice and try to help.</p>

<p>Smaller bureaucracy. University bureaucracies can be a nightmare! Students find themselves struggling with everything from financial aid to parking. With fewer students, small colleges run more smoothly.</p>

<p>Active alumni. The sense of community spirit of a liberal college often spills over into the alumni experience, so you'll be a member of an alumni community for life.</p>

<p>Easy to get involved. At large universities, you might need to be the best-of-the-best to participate in activities like sports and music. With fewer students, you'll have more opportunity to participate in what you like, even if you're not a star.</p>

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<p>LAC's in cities: not guaranteed complete.</p>

<p>I have restricted this list generally to USNews Tier 1 schools. Trinity U is assigned to the master's class, but most would say it is an LAC. Sarah Lawrence which has been "banished" from the rankings but should be noted, too. These are located in the metro areas of cities with population > 200k (or at least almost 200k)</p>

<p>Wellesley (women only) - Boston metro</p>

<p>Barnard (women only), Sarah Lawrence - NYC or NYC metro</p>

<p>Haverford, Swarthmore, Bryn Mawr (women only) - Philadelphia metro</p>

<p>Goucher - Baltimore metro</p>

<p>Spelman (HBCU, women only) - Atlanta, GA</p>

<p>New College - Sarasota, FL (in the Tampa Bay metro)</p>

<p>Lake Forest - Chicago metro</p>

<p>Macalester - St. Paul, MN</p>

<p>Trinity University - San Antonio, TX</p>

<p>Colorado College - Colorado Springs, CO</p>

<p>St. John's College - Santa Fe, NM</p>

<p>Occidental, Claremont Colleges (5 including women-only Scripps) - Los Angeles or LA metro</p>

<p>Mills (women only) - Oakland, CA</p>

<p>Reed, Lewis & Clark - Portland, OR</p>

<p>U of Puget Sound - Tacoma, WA</p>

<p>There are also quite a few excellent LAC's in small towns with 45 minutes of much larger cities, such as Vassar, Oberlin, Carleton, St. Olaf.</p>

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<p>Let me give you a different perspective on LACs,which may not be very popular.</p>

<p>Yes, they do usually provide smaller classes and better professor/student interaction. They also usually provide better training in liberal arts and writing. HOWEVER , I would like to make some generalizations,which are always dangerous to do since each school does vary:</p>

<ol>
<li>Usually the class offerings for specific majors are much more spartan than that found at larger universities. In addition, the number of majors offered at LACs don't usually come close to that of a major university. Thus, you will generally be much more limited in your courses and in your major and minor choices at LACs. These can be real drawbacks. I guess if you want a very traditional major and/or minor such as English, History, Political Science, Physics, Economics, foreign language etc., these drawbacks might not be that much of a problem for you.</li>
<li>LACS tend to be very small. Thus, you get to know every one's business and everyone gets to know your business. If you don't mind this, it isn't a problem.</li>
<li>Major universities tend to have better facilities such as weight rooms, swimming pools, theaters etc. In addition , academic facilities can be better. For example, some universities by have relationships with cyclotrons for nuclear research etc.</li>
</ol>

<p>Speaking of research, certainly some good research occurs at the better LACs;however, usually both the quality and quantity of research at major universities is far more and better than that found at LACs. Again, I am generalizing,which is always dangerous. However, I have found this to be the case. This is particularly true since LAC professors are heavily evaluated on their teaching expertise. Research tends to be a more important factor for tenure at major universities over teaching expertise.
4. LACS are liberal arts colleges. You won't generally find more vocational types of majors such as engineering, accounting, specific design oriented majors etc, although there are exceptions and there are some relationships set up by some LACs with major universities. This might actually lesson your ability to get a job in today's economy.
5. LACS generally require more general education requirements than that found at major universities. For example, schools like Brown or University of Rochester have either no requirements or very few general education requirements. However, each university has their own requirements that has to be checked out.
6. There are very few state LACS. Most LACs are private schools,which means that they are usually very expensive. In fact, a LAC has to be expensive because they are amortizing the same fixed costs of buildings and administration costs over fewer students.
7. LACs are MUCH smaller than that of major universities such as Michigan, ivy schools etc. This means much fewer alumni, and ergo, much fewer alumni connections. </p>

<p>Bottom Line: LACs do have their place and , for the right student, they can offer a very good education. However, there are drawbacks that have to be evaluated.</p>

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<p>great post taxguy thanks</p>

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<p>Taxguy's observations, I think, could use some refinement. I find a some generally true and a few misleading if not false.</p>

<p>1 & 4. Course selection:There is no doubt that research U's offer more non-liberal, practical arts courses than do liberal arts colleges. It is also the case that some research U's offer a deeper selection of courses within the liberal arts due to the availability of graduate facutly. However I have found that the better-endowed LAC's, at least, offer a range of undergraduate courses within the liberal arts disciplines themselves that rival those of the best and exceed those of the lesser research U's.</p>

<pre><code>Insofar as post-graduation opportunites go, it is true that a liberal arts bachelor's degree is less likely to lead directly to employment within the field of study than a bachelor's degree in a more practical/vocational field. This will be true if your liberal arts bachelor's is earned at a research U (where the bulk of students are liberal arts majors) or an LAC (where almost all the students are liberal arts majors). So liberal arts majors need to stay flexible in their career aspirations and find employers who value their more abstract skills (fortunately there are quite a few). This has always been so. And, if you do wish to pursue a career within a liberal arts discipline, the evidence is that LAC's better prepare you for attaining the advanced degree you are likely to need.
</code></pre>

<ol>
<li>Student facitlities: In my experience the reverse has been true - the unions and athletic facilities of LAC's in general have been superior, both in resources and maintenance, to those available at large research U's (especially public ones). IMO an LAC is more likely to attend to providing its students with high quality non-academic experiences, too. I would maintain that, at the very least, prospective students should evaluate these facilities on a case-by-case basis when comparing schools.</li>
</ol>

<p>Research focus: I find this difficult to evaluate - UG's are often shut-out of quality research opportunities at resarch U's, in particular because they compete with graduate students. And it is because research U's value research over teaching that the LAC's often provide better classroom experiences. This really needs to be investigated case-by-case, too.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Requirements: I can't see generalizing on this, either. The most severe requirements I can call to mind, at Columbia and U of Chicago, are at research U's. LAC Amherst, on the other hand, imposes almost no requirements. Most schools are somewhere in between.</p></li>
<li><p>Costs: For public LAC's, see COPLAC</a> Member Institutions . Some of these public LAC's have the added benefit of offering in-state rates to OOS students (MN-Morris and New College, for example).</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I think the fairest generality to offer is this: LAC's tend to provide a more focused and intimate experience, both socially and academically, than do larger research U's. Whether or not this is attractive depends on the prospective student.</p>

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<p>I generally agree with every point taxguy makes. There are, conversely, areas where LACs are superior. Number one is teaching/learning. The average LAC student has a better opportunity to learn than the average Big U student, since LAC profs are hired primarily for their teaching ability, and there are no TAs. Undergrads do all the research at LACs, never crowded out by grad students. The average LAC student will get better mentoring, tailored to the student, because of the smaller student/teacher ratio. LACs are indeed more expensive for those who can afford it, but FA is often better for those who cannot. LAC students can get the best of both worlds, LAC for undergrad, Big U for grad school.</p>

<p>One of our DDs chose an LAC, the other a Big U. It appears that both made the choices right for each.</p>

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<p>Valid points, taxguy, for most LA colleges. However, that is one of the many "beauty parts" about Barnard: it does offer the advantages of the LA colleges that have been mentioned (including excellent research opportunities). However, in addition, through its affiliation with Columbia (and the resultant fact that Barnard profs are tenured through Columbia), the limitations you mention are pretty much absent at Barnard. Unless, of course, you are a guy...but then you could apply to Columbia and then enroll in Barnard classes and thus gain the advantages of the smaller class size, greater attention, etc.</p>

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<p>NBAfan135: My D is agonizing over the same decision, i.e., university vs. LAC. We've looked at Penn State (main campus--40,000 students) and the football stadium alone, the biggest college stadium in the country, literally took my breath away. If you want big time sports, rah rah, go team!, always on national TV, with a ton of alumni connections and instant name recognition, and HUNDREDS of employers on campus to interview top grads for jobs, then a school like that is the way to go. The downside: freshman classes with HUNDREDS of students, many taught by TAs. You're meat; just a number, and getting to know your professor (or those job recs) is next to impossible, although that does change when you are into your major course requirements in junior and senior year. And the campus is huge and there is ton to do to distract you from academics. </p>

<p>We've visited a small private university--Lehigh. Less than 5,000 undergrads. Less to do, other than drink and study, but smaller classes (smaller, not small). More professor interaction. </p>

<p>We've visited several LACs. Swarthmore is typical. Very small (1,500 - 1,800). Profs teach all classes. A "big" class is 30. A typical class is half that size. Like others have posted, there is nowhere to hide from being asked a question by your professor or being seen as a slacker by classmates. Your absence will be noticed. You need to do your work. Students get to know their profs very well. Profs invite groups of students to their homes. This won't happen at Big State U. Downside: It won't take long before you know everybody on campus, so if you're rep is shot (say you spread an STD to another student, or something else shocking) everybody on campus is going to learn who did it.</p>

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<p>There are great LACs & there are great National Universities. Match between student & school is of utmost importance. It is easier to adjust to a LAC during the first year since it is more intimate & hand-holding is encouraged (in a very good way). This also occurs to a lesser extent in schools such as Yale & Rice that have Oxford like residential college systems, as well as in many honors colleges at large state universities. Many large universities require one to accept substantial responsibility from the first semester. It can be a bit frustrating, as are all growing pains.
I have recently seen amazing facilities at both LACs & Nat'l Univ.s; to a large extent this relates to the size of the overall Endowment Fund and also to the "endowment per student".
If still undecided, then start with a couple of guidelines such as going to a college/university with the brightest students & looking at schools with healthy endowments (as facilities, quality of profs., research options, etc. tend to be best at schools with the largest endowments).</p>

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<p>Plainsman, it seems like you're generalizing a lot, and that a lot of what you're saying was taken from CollegeConfidential. Some things I want to clear up: not all freshman classes at all universities have hundreds of students. You're not necessarily just a number either, and getting to know your professor isn't next to impossible at many universities--maybe you won't know every professor very well, but you certainly have opportunities to know them better. At LAC's, it's not like a professor will always ask you, specifically, to answer a question. Professors might ask the class a question for anyone to answer; you probably won't be isolated to answer the question. It is important, however, to have done the readings, but not everyone gets them all done and they're okay; people don't necessarily know if you haven't done the reading or not, unless you're in a very small class. Of course not every prof invites students to their homes--it happens but I can't say that it happens that much. To think that people in small schools know everybody is kind of ridiculous--just the notion that in four years one student will know 1500 people's business is an exaggeration. It just seems like you're taking everything people say absolutely and literally, which isn't necessarily good because it may skew your understanding of the colleges you're researching. You just can't generalize that in LAC's professors will invite students to their homes.</p>

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<p>As a first year student at Northwestern University, my son had classes ranging in size from eight (8) students to almost 200 students. Probably 80% of his classes had less than 30 students. Maybe 85%. There were too many options & opportunities. There was no hand holding, however. Lots of challenges, lots of growth experiences & lots of opportunities. About 35% of his classmates from high school matriculated at Ivy League schools and a very substantial number went to the top two USNews LACs. Surprisingly to me, the LAC kids had more trouble adjusting & were not as happy as the others. And all of these students were from a very elite boarding school.
For an oversimplified generalization based on my experiences with a large # of students, LACs look great on paper, but large highly selective universities allow & require bright, ambitious, hardworking students to mature & grow at a time in their young life when it is safe & wise to explore their fullest potential & options.
Any student with one or two or more fives (5s) on AP tests, is likely to experience even smaller class sizes at highly selective universities due to advanced standing that eliminates the need for lower level introductory courses.</p>

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<p>We're all generalizing; that's the point. In general, what advantages does each kind of school have? Then we give anecdotes. Our < 1500 LAC D has been to many professors' homes, has played croquet and eaten with her president. Our > 35,000 Big U D has heard her president speak in a great hall; she feels more like a number, but it doesn't bother her at all (she's a more private person). These are true generalized differences, but they don't appeal uniformly to every student.</p>

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<p>Then should we say nothing? It would be interesting to examine the freshman retention rates at the top 60 or so LACs compared to the top 60 or so national universities to determine if there is a significant difference.</p>

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<p>Boy, do TA's ever take a beating, in terms of their abilities as teachers, on this site!</p>

<p>In defense of TA's: Way back in my undergrad days at the 30K+ student University of Arizona, I had several classes that utilized TA's to teach discussion sections of large lecture classes, chemistry labs, etc. While it is true that some of those TA's were among the worst teachers I had, let it also be said that at least two of the TA's I had were among the best and most interesting! </p>

<p>Some effort could go into discussing the reasons why TA's are either excellent or terrible in the classroom, but while we're using TA's as a presumed disadvantage of large universities, let's keep in mind that one size may not fit all. I thought the TA's I had occupied about the same range from great to not-so-great as the professors.</p>