advice about a job

<p>Hi, so I graduated college in 08 and went to work for an awesome company after graduating. Unfortunately they were hit hard by the recession and laid me off at the beginning of 09. After six months of searching, I found a job and began working as a production supervisor for a big automotive supplier in Illinois in August (I have a mech eng degree fwiw). Knowing it was a production job, I expected a little over time. I asked during the interview what hours I would be working - four 9 hour shifts and a 4 hour shift on Friday is what they told me. </p>

<p>I've been keeping track of my hours since I started - I've averaged 53 hours per week for the last three months. I've worked 153 hours of overtime since I started; I'm upset as I was not planning on working this much, and had they told me the truth when i was interviewing, I would have declined the offer <insert sob="" story="" about="" the="" crying="" girlfriend="" and="" breaking="" weekend="" plans="" with="" my="" family="" at="" last="" minute="">.</insert></p>

<p>My old employer is back on their feet and positioned to do well the next few years. They're prepared to offer me a solid contract if I come back to work for them next month- I am. </p>

<p>I get a quarterly bonus check at the end of the third week in December. I'm worried that if I put in my two weeks notice, the company will terminate me on the spot and I won't be elgible for this quarter's bonus by not being with the company for the entire quarter. So, as soon as they hand me the bonus check I plan on walking out the door and re-locating for my new job the next day. From my perspective I've been lied to and taken advantage of as a salaried employee.</p>

<p>Question: Think a labor attorney could file suite and get me compensated for all these unpaid hours?</p>

<p>Also, is it ****ty of me to leave without giving notice? I don't think so given the circumstances, however, my anger could be clouding the issue a bit ;)</p>

<p>I don't really have many people to talk to about this so I wanted a fresh perspective. Thank you.</p>

<p>Well…I’m not in your shoes but I think I would give two weeks notice 10 seconds after you had cashed your bonus check and then say, “If you would prefer, I’m willing to walk out the door now.”</p>

<p>It’s hardest to do the right thing when you’re playing with people who haven’t played fair. I wouldn’t blame you for following your proposed scenario but neither do I think it the best thing. </p>

<p>I’d look at the lost pay as a tuition payment for the school of hard knocks. </p>

<p>All fwiw, ymmv, etc.</p>

<p>I don’t know the details of your job, but production supervisor may qualify as an “exempt” position–meaning you don’t qualify for overtime pay. Otherwise, you are entitled to overtime (some could be time and a half, some double time, depending on the circumstances). Your state’s labor department website probably has some layman-oriented information that can provide definitions and clarify these issues.</p>

<p>It sounds like an exempt position, so he is not eligible for overtime. This is a tactic many companies use to get cheap labor, especially with young, recent graduates. It probably sounded like a management position with a nice title and salary, but in reality what are you making an hour at 53 hours per week? Possibly less than many of their hourly workers with less education.</p>

<p>That said, it is best to never, ever, burn bridges. It is always preferable to leave on good or at least professional terms, no matter how difficult the situation or how angry you feel. And, you’ll at least know that you performed and behaved in a professional manner. It’s your career and reputation; you have to protect it like gold.</p>

<p>I suggest waiting to receive your bonus, then immediately give your two weeks’ notice. They may ask you to leave right away - many companies like this usually don’t want people hanging around anyway (they are probably accustomed to people up and leaving because they’ve been taken advantage of). You can make it clear that you are willing to leave immediately. Additionally, they may have a holiday slowdown and your departure may be rather convenient for them.</p>

<p>I worked in senior management in manufacturing for many years and this is a common story - don’t feel so bad!</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>I think it’s great your former company wants you back. My former company has a no hire back policy for salaried employees. Pretty good advice above. If you can negotiate your start date with your old company, get your bonus and put your resignation into place at your current company after you “cash th check”. And yes, there is a high probability that will “allow” you to leave immediately, but make sure your new/old company start date jibes. It’s possible you could negotiate a start date at the new/old company for the New Year so if your soon to be old company doesn’t ask you to leave ASAP you aren’t burning bridges, but make sure that you have everything set and preferably in writing with your new/old company. And finally, yes, having come from an automotive manufacturing business, nothing you said surprises me in the least. Whether or not you are due OT compensation at your current company is related to how your job was classified. Look at it this way, having spent this time in the manufacturing environment will never be a negative on your resume going forward as painful as it might have been. Managing to stay employed in the automotive industry this past year was a miracle. The HR manager should be able to clarify your OT status for you but ask now, not when you are heading out the door.</p>

<p>I agree with the above advice. I would tell your new company that your start date may have to be as late as x date (two weeks after the bonus check is paid) but will likely be sooner as you hope to not have to work out the two week notice. I do think you need to give the two week notice, however, and be prepared to stay. </p>

<p>As for the overtime, I’ve never been in a production environment where anybody is paid on an hourly basis and a 50+ hour week is routine in any office I have worked in, so your issue with the hours wouldn’t occur to me to be a problem. However, it is not right that you were misled about the hours. A new grad friend of my son’s (May 2010) has just accepted a job in finance where he was told to expect 100/hours a week. That may be excessive but clearly they are trying to set proper expectations for him and I know those analysts in investment banking are treated like slaves so may not be too far off the mark. The fact that you were unemployed for six months before finding this position makes it hard for me to believe you actually would have wanted to turn down the job offer even if they had said to expect 50-55 hours per week. I would advise my son in a case like that (also in engineering) to take the position but keep looking until he found something better. You have that something better now, so need to be angry or act unprofessionally.</p>

<p>Are you eligible for vacation at your current company? If so, perhaps you could negotiate with your new company that you spend your vacation orienting with them (without pay…perhaps to be “made up for” in a later bonus), then return to your current company, receive your bonus, and give your notice. I have known several executives who have done this. I’m personally not sure of the ethics involved, but it would certainly beat walking out the door after your last check.</p>

<p>Okay employer here and pet peeve about OT. If you felt you were entitled to compensation for OT while you were working there did you check with HR? Did you ask when you took the position if it was an exempt position? Have you done any research on what qualifies a position as exempt?
Asking polite questions about this while you are employed is a perfectly reasonable tactic. Leaving and then going to a labor attorney smells like sour grapes…if I were a future employer it would be a warning flag to me.
Agree with other points in the Analyst post.</p>

<p>Sometimes with people there is an assumption that an “hourly” pay rate equates to the ability to receive OT, but it actually relates to whether the position is classified as exempt or non-exempt. Always a good question to ask with an hourly pay rate: Is this a position that pays OT or not. For young people, some industries are pretty good about maintaing a 37.5 - 40 hour work week, but it’s pretty rare in this day and age. Check out the parking lot at 5:15 or 5:30 to get a clue about the culture. I worked at a company where the prez moved the office to have a view of the parking lots…and he watched to see who left the building at 5. Really. He also liked to schedule employee meets at 8 in the cafeteria which faced on the parking lot and entrance to see who walked in after 8. Really.</p>

<p>One other issue to consider:</p>

<p>If your new employer is concerned about your not starting right away, simply tell them that the reason you need to postpone your start date is because you will get a bonus from your current company of $XXX if you stay until X date. If the new company really wants you sooner, they may offer you the amount of the bonus as a sign-on bonus from them. This way, you get the money from the new employer and they get you sooner than they would have otherwise.</p>

<p>This happens all the time.</p>

<p>Wow. I wouldn’t do a thing to jeopardize the new job. I’d start when I said I’d start. If that means that the current employer does not give you the bonus, that’s unfortunate but better than losing the better job.</p>

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<p>I think that you really and truly need to learn the rules of the state in which you live when it comes to time and a half and all of that. </p>

<p>Are you just getting paid the same rate of pay per hour for all hours worked period? There are certain labor laws about ‘who all’ can obtain time and a half/double time and whatnot and ‘who all’ cannot. I would safely assume that HR or even the employee manual would speak of such things. </p>

<p>Or, did the company tell you that they hold over back pay and give to you in the form of a bonus?! I am confused. </p>

<p>Please be careful about calling things a day on work. It might be hard for you to obtain a reference if you just make like a banana and split on the quick. References are very important.</p>

<p>I know of someone who recently quit on the spot, giving no notice, when she got a new job. She even told off the old employer.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, the new job did not work out and in short order she was unemployed. She can neither go back to the old employer nor get a reference from them.</p>

<p>Don’t burn bridges.</p>

<p>Wise advice. And more accurate than you can possibly imagine when you are under about 40. Bridges that you burn seem to reappear at the most inconvenient times.</p>

<p>derkajihadd, can we assume you did not work 53 hours at the original job? I’m surprised.</p>

<p>Lots of people in exempt positions work hours in excess of 40 including sometimes 60 or more. It goes with the professional position and is one of the reasons those positions have higher salaries than an hourly position. It goes with the job. Take a look at the schedules of corporate executives, doctors, some lawyers at high end firms, investment bankers, and many other management and professional positions. </p>

<p>Sometimes duties change necessitating more hours than was originally envisioned. In these cases this professional employee needs to make process improvements, suggestions, work with their management, etc. to improve the situation so they don’t need to regularly work the excess hours. If that can’t be done then the employee can make the decision as to whether they want to continue to work that position or seek another position in the same company or elsewhere.</p>

<p>When one is starting out in a professional and/or management position one sometimes works a lot of hours to learn the position and in addition they may not be as quick and as efficient or as savvy as they eventually will be.</p>

<p>If you want an hourly job, don’t accempt an exempt position, but realize your overall compensation will likely be reduced in the long run, but it might make you feel better about working ‘overtime’. You need to have a different mentality for a professional or management position than for an hourly or union position.</p>

<p>If you don’t like your current position and want to take the job at the other company my suggestion is to gracefully resign from your current company, thanking them for the opportunity they gave you, and just moving on without lawsuits. View all of this as a learning and professional growing experience. If you’re that worried about getting the bonus then maybe you’re being compensated more than you realize. Try not to burn any bridges because you might just end up needing to cross them again someday.</p>

<p>good advice above. The issue seems to be that the OP didn’t clarify exempt vs. non exempt in the beginning when he took the job. Then he didn’t ask HR or anyone regarding the classification while he was working the job. Now that he has what he deems a better offer he wants to leave the job and sue the employer. Nice. This is what is wrong with a lot of young professionals today.</p>

<p>“If you don’t like your current position and want to take the job at the other company my suggestion is to gracefully resign from your current company, thanking them for the opportunity they gave you, and just moving on without lawsuits. View all of this as a learning and professional growing experience. If you’re that worried about getting the bonus then maybe you’re being compensated more than you realize. Try not to burn any bridges because you might just end up needing to cross them again someday.”</p>

<p>Great advice, especially about the not burning any bridges. You are very happy to return to employer1. As you go back walk happily on the bridge you didn’t burn.</p>

<p>Yes, I think you should just move it on and chalk it up to a learning experience.</p>