<p>Here's the short version. D1 got a 790 in math but never loved it; got to UVA and started w/ Calc 3 but was really struggling so she dropped it and ended up in Arts & Sciences. </p>
<p>D2 LOVES math but only got a 680 on the SAT and a 28 ACT (which was by far her lowest of the sections). She also really likes science and medicine (she's in a specialized HS where they take college level medical courses, and science was her best ACT at 32). She is thinking of majoring in engineering but I worry that if D1 couldn't handle Calc 3 that D1 will also struggle with advanced courses like it, or DiffEq etc. OTOH, D2 loves math and is not severely ADHD like D1 is (and who wasn't yet on medication). </p>
<p>D2 also is debating being a doctor and I told her that there is no reason she couldn't get a BS in Eng and then go to med school. Right now she is touring Alabama where she has been accepted and will get merit of at least 2/3rds tuition (full tuition if she does engineering). She has also applied to Pitt, UVA, CalPolySLO, and George Mason and probably stands a good chance of getting some merit at a couple of those (she's only ever had one A- and takes mostly AP or weighted courses).</p>
<p>So, my big question is whether engineering and/or math would be a good choice for someone who says math is their favorite subject and routinely has the highest grades in her math classes (AB calc, for example, this year), but who only got a 680/28 on the SAT/ACT. FYI- her HS is good, but not great.</p>
<p>My other question is if she gets into UVA do you think it would be worth it to go to Alabama for a much cheaper cost? Finances aren't a huge concern but anything we save could be used toward a masters etc. She also wants to go far away and not be somewhere that she knows a lot of people (plus I think her sister's poor experience at UVA has colored her thinking slightly even though we knew her sister would not be a good fit there and think that D1 would be a better fit).</p>
<p>Your D1 may have done better had she not started in Calc 3 at UVa. My son who went to UVa had similar math stats (780, 800 on SATs and 5’s in AB and BC) but he was advised during orientation to start in Calc 2 to help in the transition from high school to college. Sorry your D1 has not had a good fit at UVa .</p>
<p>680 should be fine for D2 in math if she has done fine in calculus already. My VT son had a 710 and had no issues in VT engineering. Is there some reason your D2 has not also applied to Virginia Tech in addition to UVa, since it is instate for you and she is interested in engineering? </p>
<p>My kids liked their instate choices and we were willing to pay so did not pursue merit at places like Pitt and Alabama. For other families, going out of state and pursuing merit makes sense. So, it really depends on how much your D2 likes her instate choices and how much your family is willing to pay. Good luck.</p>
<p>I got a 690 on the Math SAT back in the day, went to college, took Calc 1, 2, Multivariable and Diff eq, went on to get an engineering degree and am employed as an engineer.<br>
In CC world a 680 maybe thought of as “low”, but in the real world it is in the 91% of math sat scores.
I agree that perhaps it might be good not to start in Calc 3 unless she got a 5 on the AP for Calc BC.</p>
<p>“D2 also is debating being a doctor and I told her that there is no reason she couldn’t get a BS in Eng and then go to med school.”
-This is absolutely fine…that is if she can maintain college GPA of 3.6+ (absolute min.), participate in whole lot of medical ECs and prepare for MCAT (which takes few hours daily for several weeks) and get a decent score. It is done by some.<br>
Another note, her ACT score does not indicate love of math in a way that is required for engineering.
I am familiar with engineering, I was there for 11 years simply because I loved math. Loving math is NOT enough for engineering, it was not for me, I hate it despite of all academic success. so after working for 11 years, I said , enough is enough, went back to school and very happy that I did. I am also familiar with pre-med/medical as D. is graduating from Medical School in May of 2015. I am also familiar with Merit awards, D. was on full tuition Merit at her UG. Additional comment about Medical Schools - they absolutely do not care where applicant attended for UG, they want to see high collge GPA, decent MCAT, Medical ECs and somewhat social personality. So, if you have more detailed questions about these 3 aspects of your post, you can PM me</p>
<p>Engineering along with the required pre-med classes (assuming your D wants to apply to med school) is doable, but a tough road. Add to that hundreds of hours volunteering in a hospital, doctor shadowing, studying for and taking the MCAT junior year, research work, and community involvement all required for med school admission means you are going to have one very busy and probably stressed college student. It can and has been done many times, but your D would need to be very passionate about medicine. Now she could always stay the course and get her engineering degree without the added pre-med classes/requirements and then go back to school later on to finish pre-med classes that were not a part of her engineering major, and she would have more time for volunteering, doctor shadowing, etc… I think doing both with the extra curricular requirements to even have a chance at med school acceptance would be challenging though, unless of course, her passion for becoming a doctor is very strong.</p>
<p>Also, I agree with a pp that it is not always a good idea to jump up 2 levels in college calculus because AP classes were taken. My D decided not to do this and is glad she did. Taking calculus again in college is giving her a stronger foundation in the subject. She opted not to sit for the AP calc exam in high school because she had already decided to take calculus in college again even though she had an A in the AP class. </p>
<p>As for the school choice, if finances are not an issue, she should attend at her best fit school.</p>
<p>Your daughter will be fine. My poor daughter didn’t have a math SAT as high as your daughter’s and miraculously she got a degree in engineering…with great math grades all around. </p>
<p>However, keep in mind…her overall GPA and he SGPA (science gpa) will be very important if she intends to apply to medical school. She can really major in anything,as long as she takes the prerequisite courses the medical schools require for consideration. And this is all changing with the 2015 MCAT which is placing an increased emphasis on the humanities, and social sciences.</p>
<p>Please don’t think she can’t do math because she ‘only’ got a 680 on the SAT Math. That is a good score. My Ds are both excellent math students and their SAT Math score was their lowest of the SAT. Standardized tests do not reflect ability to learn math in class.</p>
<p>with GPAs being a very important part of a med school app, D should major in something she enjoys or has an interest or is passionate about as D is more likely to earn competitive GPAs if she enjoys material. Any major is fine for med school. Most kids end up as bio majors as it typically allows students to kill two birds with one stone (complete major/premed reqs simultaneously). As an English, math, or engineering major, besides GEs and major reqs, D would somehow have to fit premed reqs into her schedule which possibly could be challenging. Also, as I understand it, engineering majors can find it challenging to earn high GPAs. You might think that med schools will overlook a lower GPA and be impressed by rigorous engineering curriculum, but they will not as what’s rigorous to one may be easy to another (e.g. an engineering major might find philosophy very difficult and vice versa, yet both could get into med school with competitive application). </p>
<p>If D goes down premed path, she should consider a college where she fits in as she will tend to do better in this environment and consider a college where she graduates with little or no debt as much of med school is financed via loans and it’s better to start with little/no debt. Good luck.</p>
<p>sevmom wrote: Is there some reason your D2 has not also applied to Virginia Tech in addition to UVa, since it is instate for you and she is interested in engineering?</p>
<p>For some reason she doesn’t like Tech. We’ve been there several times and she just isn’t feeling it. She really doesn’t want to go anywhere instate because she wants “to go far away and have new experiences, and have to meet new people and make new friends”. </p>
<p>She is going to apply to UVA, W&M, GMU, and CNU but really wants OOS (preferably CalPolySLO) lol!</p>
<p>It’s always funny what kids want. Wm & M is a great instate option but neither of my kids wanted anything to do with it. My older son humored us and took a tour but came away from the tour saying he didn’t want to apply ( the bow tie wearing, backwards walking guide and lack of big time sports entered into his 17 year old decision). No engineering there anyway so he would probably have been a physics major so just as well. Younger son refused to even take the tour! As long as you are willing and able to pay for her to “go far away,” can’t hurt to apply far and wide.</p>
<p>A lot of high school students want to be a doctor. It is a career category they are familiar with, have seen on tv, and see as helpful and/or prestigious. Many change their minds once they hit college. In any case, as others have said, the premed prerequisites can be done between college and med school (if you can pay) and a student can major in anything.</p>
<p>Nursing and physician’s assistant and various technicians and therapists are all great fields these days.</p>
<p>My son did not take the math and physics at a level the AP scores would have entitled him to. He also got the advice to start with the first classes in the sequence, to ease stress and to follow the curriculum of that particular school in a solid way.</p>
<p>As for engineering, I don’t know much about it but a 680 is a pretty good score, and it is always possible she is not a good test taker, especially if she is doing that well in her class.</p>
<p>comp mom said “A lot of high school students want to be a doctor. It is a career category they are familiar with, have seen on tv, and see as helpful and/or prestigious. Many change their minds once they hit college.”</p>
<p>She spent 2 weeks this summer at Med School and 3 days last week at a Med School following around Med Students so I think she probably has a better idea than most kids, luckily. She also has taken a bunch of medical courses already like Pathology, Anatomy, Pathophysiology etc so I hope she at least knows a bit about what she would be getting herself into. When asked what was her favorite part of the 3 days of Med school she replied “the cadaver lab, especially the guy with this thoracic cavity all open that we poked around in”. </p>
<p>thumper1 said: “That is funny…she wants Calpoly SLO but doesn’t want VA Tech. Has she visited cal Poly?”</p>
<p>No, but we are going over Spring Break if she gets in. To her there is a big difference between VT and CPSLO. One is cold and in the mountains and one is in Cali on the ocean. One has 50 kids she knows and the other would have none. She’s a Taurus and is as stubborn as they come. </p>
<p>Well, of course, you know, she doesn’t have to see any kids she knows if she doesn’t want to. Neither of my kids really hung out with kids they knew from high school. But that’s always one of the reasons kids seem to use when they want to go OOS. But as you say, she’s a Taurus! My VT kid had kids on his freshman floor from RI, NJ, Md, Ca, etc. and a kid from South America. Coincidentally, the kid from California was there because he didn’t get into Cal Poly SLO (which gets tons of instate applicants for their available slots). </p>
<p>She should look into Occidental and Pitzer, perhaps USanDiego, Chapman, Santa Clara, and LMU.
Run the Net Price calculators as these tend to be pricy and, while Occidental and Pitzer meet need, the others don’t.
Is UC Davis not in consideration because of the high OOS costs?
I’ve heard that UC-Riverside has a special program for future physicians and sometimes has scholarships for strong OOS applicants (not sure how many or for how much).</p>
<p>For math placement when she enters college, it would be a good idea for her to try the college’s old final exams for the courses she is allowed to skip using her AP credit. This will allow her to self-assess how well she knows the material to the college’s expectations, so that she can choose the best first math course for her.</p>
<p>Pre-med can be done alongside any major, although engineering majors (except maybe chemical or biomedical) tend to have so many non-overlapping requirements that it may be difficult to fit all of the requirements and pre-med courses into an eight semester schedule.</p>
<p>I can’t imagine any OOS premed, who understands the process, wanting to go to a Calif school. The state has WAY TOO MANY med school applicants. Your D would be handicapping herself if she went to a Calif school as an OOS premed. The Calif publics have poor premed advising and they don’t do Committee Letters.</p>
<p>It is extremely difficult to get into a Calif med school, even if instate. UCLA alone could fill up all the Calif med school seats. It is ridiculously hard if you’re OOS. Being an OOS premed adds nothing. If she wants to go OOS, she should choose a school in a state that has med schools that will give special consideration to an OOS applicant who attended undergrad in their state. </p>
<p>Your D may want to try eng’g as her major, but she should have something in mind that she might switch to if she suspects that her GPA may suffer. Engineering students often end up with GPAs that aren’t med school worthy. </p>
<p>My son got his degree in Chemical Engineering and virtually all the premed prereqs were required. However, some new med school prereqs are being required, including psychology and sociology, so those might be harder to fit in. </p>
<p>I now see that your DD toured Bama yesterday and liked it. Attending Alabama would help her get accepted to an Alabama SOM. Alabama SOMs are also pretty good about awarding some merit to help cut those OOS costs.
And, Alabama is a rare public that does do Committee Letters.</p>