Advice for an “overachiever” considering dropping out of high school

<p>There are a lot of adults here that know the system and assume that any bright teenager should be able to navigate the educational system when it is clearly hard for many teens, parents and even those in the business.</p>

<p>The OP doesn’t indicate that he’s having trouble in his classes–indeed, he says he’s doing the work. That’s good. He just feels that it’s beneath him. I think the reason some of us are saying “get over yourself” is that we’ve seen and known others who felt that the high school work was beneath them. I think pugmadkate’s advice is reasonable if a student really does need an alternative to typical high school. The OP will have to decide if he’s somebody who needs to explore those alternatives, or if he is, in fact, somebody who needs to get over himself and just finish high school. In either case, just dropping out of high school makes no sense.</p>

<p>By the way, my view on potential ■■■■■■ is that as long as the question might apply to some real people who will read this, it’s worth responding, even if the OP himself isn’t for real.</p>

<p>Youthful angst should be expected but never indulged.</p>

<p>First off, I should probably describe what I had in mind when I said “dropping out.” I’m talking about any alternative to having a full schedule of high school classes. Sorry about the confusion. My word choice could use a great deal of work. But I wasn’t exactly thinking rationally when I posted this.</p>

<p>@umcp11: Allow me to describe a little of my history. I wanted to avoid this-it will undoubtedly generate even more criticism. But it will explain some of the emotional baggage which makes any self-education overshadowed by school difficult:</p>

<hr>

<p>I used to take great pleasure in going to school. I enjoyed studying late into the night. It made me feel so accomplished. The grades that I got made me feel so smart. I lived for my grades. Of course, I said it was all because I “loved learning.” The grades were merely indicators of how well I had mastered the material. But the truth was embarrassing: I really had no life other than my grades.</p>

<p>How can anyone compete with that sort of student? How could I compete with that sort of student? With all the praise (from teachers, from parents, from peers) came insecurity. I feared failure. What if I could not grasp this next topic? What if I failed the test? What would everyone think of me then? By the end of last year, it was so obsessive a fear that my grades really did drop. I made stupid mistake after stupid mistake. I couldn’t finish any test on time. I did fail.</p>

<p>I dedicated the summer to avoiding schoolwork in any way, shape, or form. The weeks flew by as I consumed library book after library book. I got more emotionally involved than ever before. I dreamed about the books I read; I occasionally caught myself narrating my actions as I groggily got out of bed in the morning. Needless to say, I found my numbness.</p>

<p>Then came CTY. As always, that was a pleasant experience. The social scene wasn’t as awesome as my past summer there. But the course itself was amazing. I really love how they teach those courses: there is no pressure whatsoever. You simply learn the material. And I did. For once, I was studying for something other than grades. It was . . . pleasant. For once, I the insecurity was tolerable.</p>

<p>And school started soon after. The insecurity had reached pre-CTY levels by the second week. While studying for my first physics test in the library that Thursday, I got nothing done. Because I was worried that I would get nothing done! How ridiculous is that?! Upon explaining my mental state to my father, I received a lecture on how I should try to ignore those around me and focus only on myself and my needs.</p>

<p>I tried. I really did. And things did get better, at least for a month or so. Okay, I still did dedicate my Friday nights solely to Song of Ice and Fire. But it wasn’t anything excessive. It was then that my science research teacher asked me to teach myself calculus. I bought a book and tried to work through it . . . without even looking at the exercises. Thus, between my fear that I could never understand any of the material and my failure to apply any of it, I recalled little of it. I had failed.</p>

<p>Things really got bad at this point. October, November, and early December swept by as I bolted down book after book after book. I became especially obsessed with the Farseer Trilogy (and the other trilogies which stemmed from it). The rest of my time was essentially spent in a depressed haze. I did all my homework in second period study hall. I studied for few tests. My grades remained the same.</p>

<p>And that is what killed me. I wasn’t trying nearly as hard as I had last year. And my grades remained the same. I was (and am) taking 5 AP classes. Why was it easier than my two last year? Why had I even bothered to study? These classes were so easy. They taught only how to solve different faces of the same, exceedingly-simply problem in the most memorization-intensive manner possible.</p>

<p>To what had I dedicated my life for the past 10 years?</p>

<p>Nothing.</p>

<p>There was no joy in this form of learning. There was no beauty in any of the subjects I was forced to learn. They were just “practical.” I could apply them to any real life situation . . . . Yeah, right, like I would ever have to know the difference between y and y-hat in real life-like I would ever have to know any of these subjects in real life. Even if I were to go into one of these fields, everything I had learned in the class would be useless. And I had not even developed the essential skills while forcing down all this garbage. My critical thinking skills were subpar. I could only think analytically . . . just enough to earn a perfect score on a standardized test for the district.</p>

<p>I felt betrayed. I felt empty. What was the point of going on? I enjoyed nothing anymore. Even reading just made me feel numb. I had no passion. And I would never be good enough to excel in an area even if I was passionate about it, not if I were to begin so late. I was almost 17; what did it matter?</p>

<p>I haven’t read this whole thread, but, Fawkes, I had a very long meeting just today with a student (also a junior) and her mom. They wanted to know how she could leave high school now and continue with her college prep. She’s 4.0 student, gifted violinist, and I have no doubt she’ll do extremely well when the time comes for college apps. Our only task was to sort out a plan of where to go from here for the next year-and-a-half.</p>

<p>There are lots of options. High school isn’t for everybody. My kids didn’t go to high school, didn’t get a diploma – they’re both in excellent college programs now. The “suck it up” advice sometimes has its place, but it’s not necessarily applicable to every negative situation. If you want to leave high school, then leave. Chart your own course. You can self-study and then take SAT Subject Tests or AP tests to validate your learning, you can take classes online, you can take classes at a community or 4-yr college. You can piece it all together however you want. What are you waiting for?</p>

<p>@momofthreeboys: I do not only feel “disdain” when I think of school. Please read my response to umcp11. It describes my experiences with school. Perhaps that can better convey my attitudes. </p>

<p>Also, could you recommend any specific programs/opportunities someone in my situation should look out for? What would a student in your community with an interest in math do during regular school hours?</p>

<p>@oldfort: I apologize for the ambiguity. I would be interested in any “alternative” education (i.e. one in which I am not in school 6 hours and 35 minutes every day). Homeschooling, for example, would be an option. Video games and television would not.</p>

<p>@Nester: I doubt it would be appropriate for me to enroll in college early. Intellectually, I could probably handle it. Socially, I doubt it. I am not yet mature enough. If I were, I would not have posted this.</p>

<p>I will look into dual enrollment, though. Thanks for the idea!</p>

<p>@M’s Mom: Thanks for the support! May I ask how she came across such an opportunity? I would be interested in something like that.</p>

<p>@Hunt: Again, sorry for the ambiguity. Losing all my credits is something I would like to avoid. But, if it is necessary for my mental health, then I am willing to do it. And please don’t think I’m under the impression that I am better than my teachers. I do not like how some of them teach. But what bothers me most is that I know many of them could convey so much more (e.g. a passion for the subject matter).</p>

<p>You should check your state truancy laws before just leaving. In my state we have compulsory attendance laws to age 18. A student would have to be in a homeschooling program, have a diploma or be in an alternative program.</p>

<p>[NARHS</a> | Your diploma, your way.](<a href=“http://www.narhs.org/]NARHS”>http://www.narhs.org/)</p>

<p>Go here and read about an alternate way to get a high school diploma and then be on your way. This is a ‘real’ school and not just some diploma mill type place. My children have gotten their high school diplomas through this school.</p>

<p>You may want to read up on the ideas of homeschooling. It allows you to learn based on your passions. If you go the NARHS route, you would have an advisor who can direct you in this. </p>

<p>Also, try googling something like ‘homeschooling in high school’. There are so many ways to learn that are fresh and exciting. You just may need to get away from the ‘box’ of your current school. </p>

<p>Keep searching. There are many options out there.</p>

<p>Take your GED.</p>

<p>@BCEagle91: Thanks for the support! I knew that writing that formula in LaTeX would amuse someone.</p>

<p>And this is probably the path I will take. Like I said in one of my posts, I think I need a change in environment. Dual-enrollment could definitely provide this change. It could also give me greater (if not total) freedom to follow my interests. I hope there’s such a program in my area.</p>

<p>@07DAD: Perhaps when I am less angsty, I can consider such a move. But now would not be the best time to join the military.</p>

<p>@pugmadkate: My local library has a copy. I will most certainly read it. It seems to be just what I’m looking for. Is it something my parents could read or would it turn them off? They’re both teachers . . . .</p>

<p>And thank you for all the advice. It was different from what I had in mind when I posted this.</p>

<p>@palmalk: Did I misspell something? If so, I apologize.</p>

<p>Also, please understand that this was not supposed to be a rhetorical piece. It was simply an abridged journal entry. Thus, it probably sounded a bit contrived. Any literary fundamentalist can tell you that abridging a piece of writing often destroys the emotion. </p>

<p>Perhaps my response to umcp11 better communicates my feelings regarding my own abilities. For a while, I lacked the confidence to even complete an in-class test. Any my PSAT score depressed me-it did not make me feel better about myself.</p>

<p>I am trying to go “above and beyond” the curriculum to teach myself things of interest to me. As per advice received on one of my older posts, I am working through the Art of Problem Solving Introductory Series right now. I am moving slowly-but that is largely because I take time to attempt answers to any questions I might come up with as I read. At the moment, this reading is the only thing that keeps me going. But I often find that the feelings I associate with school are too much to simply go home, breeze through my homework, and then read Art of Problem Solving.</p>

<p>@starbright: I think the above response is applicable to your post as well.</p>

<p>Also, I am not a ■■■■■. I may have a problem with acne-but the resemblance ends there.</p>

<p>@Smithieandproud: Sorry for the ambiguity! Like I said in one of my above posts, I am not looking to drop out and get a minimum wage job. I am looking for something along the lines of homeschooling.</p>

<p>@collegealum314: I do not believe I am mature enough for complete enrollment in college yet. I am leaning more towards combining homeschooling and local college classes, if possible.</p>

<p>@starbright: Is that a bad thing?</p>

<p>I think my response to umcp11 should better connect the dots. Pretty much, just after I had developed those attitudes, I posted to CC and AoPS, asking for advice on how to develop my problem-solving skills in general. I became interested in math along the way. I do not believe, however, that I asked how to improve my scores on the AMC. I really was not too interested in improving those scores-I was just posting them to indicate how far I had (and still have) to go.</p>

<p>@stevensmama: Please understand that my post was not intended to be condescending. I probably come off as a jerk, especially in my response to umcp11. But all sentiments expressed were emotional in nature . . . obviously. If Steven enjoys/enjoyed his experience at high school, then all the more power to him. I would not wish these emotions on anyone. That would just be cruel. Nor do I believe I am “smarter” for having them-on the contrary, I believe myself quite stupid for having them.</p>

<p>@pugmadkate and BCEagle91: Again, thank you!</p>

<p>@Hunt: Perhaps I do believe the work is “beneath me.” But, I assure you, it is out of no condescension on my part. My lack of skills outside the “test room” disturbs me. How can I feel comfortable simply spending time repeating the same exercise 20 times, for example, when I could be developing other skills?</p>

<p>@toblin: Would you make an exception when psychological issues are involved? Perhaps I should go for an evaluation. Does anybody know how much that would cost?</p>

<p>@’rentof2: Thanks for the information. Are there any resources (websites, books, etc.) I should read on the subject? I know the Teenage Liberation Handbook came up . . . .</p>

<p>Michigan has a Virtual High School with on-line courses. Check out what your state has to offer. You asked what kids in our system do. They actually do a variety of things. Along with Virtual High School, the kids that have all their grad requirements completed sometimes spend the second half of senior year at a career/tech center taking photography, pre-pharmacy (which transfer into the core curriculum at Michigan pharm schools), and a variety of other non-traditional curriculum. Our school allows “independent study” where the student designs the course and works with a teacher. Also we are fortunate to have a couple CCs, a state uni and an art school within driving distance so obviously many kids just enroll there. You may need to finish any state required curriculum so you really need to schedule time with your GC, they will facilitate any alternative education you decide to pursue.</p>

<p>The Teenage Liberation Handbook is great and inspirational. As a junior though, I would advise you to pursue a program outside of school that will fill out your college prep along more traditional lines. That would involve taking college or online classes, or self-studying to take standardized test (SAT, AP.)</p>

<p>I get the feeling you want to write about this a lot more than you want to take action. Whether you’re condescending or not, what your attitude is like, what you’re feeling about this or that, the opinions of us on this internet board… that is all interesting, maybe, and part of processing where your head is in all this, but ultimately it really comes down to either making the best of the situation you’re in, or building a different situation for yourself. All the rest is just jabbering.</p>

<p>I’m late to this thread, but here are some ideas and questions.
You are probably too late to apply to colleges and I gather that you do not feel ready to enroll as a full-time student yet. So you have another year to go through.
How many graduation requirements do you still have to fulfill by the end of this school year? Which APs are you taking currently?
You love math. AoPS is a good site for math-lovers; or you could take online courses through EPGY; it’s good for both math and physics. You could take college courses in math and sciences.
You may find the assignments in your various classes too easy and therefore boring. It’s up to you to make them more challenging. For instance, my S had to take a course that was far too easy for him, but that was the only one he could take in order to fulfill that set of requirements. He was bored and was turning in subpar work. Eventually, his teacher agreed to let him tackle a project that was far more advanced than was expected of the class. He researched it himself and did a great job of it. this is just one example. He usually tried to do his own best rather than just meet expectations.He took a large number of college classes because he ran out of high school classes and because he enjoyed learning at a faster pace.
He graduated early so his experience is not duplicable by you, but the idea is the same. Figure out a way of taking challenging classes either in your local college or online. Talk to your teachers about doing more challenging assignments. You still have one semester of junior year to go. You could try some of my suggestions right away.</p>

<p>Fawkes, the reason I question you is because in this thread, you make it sound like all you do is study. Leaving out the fact, in particular, that you play a varsity sport (not something you just picked up), among other things. Its all good: it just changes the optics considerably. </p>

<p>I am not a huge fan of traditional education believe it or not. I’m the one going around telling everyone to read The Element by Ken Robinson for example! I’m a fan of early college. And homeschool. And creative conceptual education over rote drills and regurgitation of a ton of superfical information to cram through APs. I’m strongly critical of the current state of US HS education, if you want to look up my threads. And I absolutely believe that one should take different paths in their education to suit their unique needs (in your case, it would be being a very high gifted learner, like one of my children, who also doesn’t fit the traditional system).</p>

<p>The big difference for me however is you have just a year to go. You aren’t struggling with school. And you can meet your needs when you get out of highschool But emotionally you are making this into something it doesn’t have to be and actually thinking of throwing it all in seems like an overindulgence. </p>

<p>The only other thing I would emphasize again (more specifically), is if you have this very pessimistic, lack of joy, empty, pointless feeling about things outside of school, you might just be suffering from depression. In which case, the focus should not be on school but on getting help with the depression itself.</p>

<p>And I’m not a psychologist, but (god, no one should follow the advice that comes after that intro!) but I do NOT think you shuld be making major life decisions when in the emotional state you are in. Seems to me if you are as down as you come across in your second post, you need to see someone first to find out IF its about school, or IF its really just where you are focusing your depression right now.</p>

<p>I was puzzled by the reactions to your first post, which I read as being full of very real angst, based on some very real problems in our educational system, as well as some personal depression. The discomforting need to parrot in class or papers, the focus on grades versus learning, and the feelings of hypocrisy and self-disgust even when you do succeed, are all familiar to me even 40 years later.</p>

<p>I will add to or repeat what others have said. It is fine to leave school. Would your parents support this? Do they have any extra money to fund this?</p>

<p>Order a book called “The Film Club” by David Gilmour. It is about a Dad who tells his unhappy son, one day, that he can leave school, with the condition that they watch movies together every week. Things work out.</p>

<p>I currently have a 17 year-old who just got her GED. She is not doing her senior year. She is a dancer, but school also just did not work for her at all.</p>

<p>Having raised three teenagers, two of whom are now either at college or have graduated, and occasionally took a different path for a year or two, I can list our ideas, which can be mixed and matched:</p>

<p>dual enrollment with community college (you get credit for both high school and college,by attending community college classes)</p>

<p>continuing education or unmatriculated status at any local college (In some states, if you finish a year of college you can automatically get a hs diploma)</p>

<p>take online courses, either college level or high school…for the latter, look up <a href=“http://www.educere.net;%5B/url%5D”>www.educere.net;</a> we have experience with Aventa Learning and Virtual High School</p>

<p>Keystone online high school (more for homeschooling, but the provide courses)</p>

<p>North Atlantic Regional High School in Maine: they will do a free transcript evaluation, then for $400-500/year, will take just about anything you do (not just academic courses) and find a way to give you credit…they are legit and appropriately rigorous, but flexible. You can even teach yourself and keep track, and send them the notes, and they will credit you. The number of credits needed to graduate is under 20, but you can do more if you like. They also work with colleges.</p>

<p>Get your GED, which is accepted at most colleges (our daughter just did that). You get scores that can be sent to schools.</p>

<p>Consider low residency colleges like Goddard in Vt. or Union Institute in Vt., which would probably take you with only a little more on your transcript, or with a GED. You spend a week on campus each of 2 semesters, and work independently the rest of the time, with good support and communication with a faculty mentor.</p>

<p>Do a structured gap year or work with a service organization of some sort.</p>

<p>Find ways to develop newly emerging talents or enthusiasms. It is not too late! One of my kids is a composer, and she started at your age, which is really quite early. I am 58 and am taking my first drawing class next week. Try adult education centers or community college non-credit courses or find other resources to learn what you want to learn: how to fly a plane, baking, glassblowing, writing poetry, playing the piano, acting in community theater, etc.</p>

<p>Use your community…there are so many opportunities even in a small town, or, if need be, in a nearby city. Volunteer in a hospital, local cable access, tutoring, shelter, science organization, etc.</p>

<p>What happened with my son, after he hit a rough patch adn left school for a bit, was that he returned to school with fresh enthusiasm, no longer tied to external motivators like grades or praise, but with real internal motivation. It became fun again. he said he didn’t care anymore what anyone thought of himL he would just be himself no matter what.</p>

<p>The guy in the Film Club also returns (goes to college) and does well.</p>

<p>One other thing: the system often hurts “smart” kids who do well in it, by teaching them (you) at very young ages, to base self-esteem on the feedback from others, and on grades. You are to be commended for not being able to sustain this any longer. It is natural to have a period of transition, of emptiness and depression, before you can connect to more authentic ways to learn and live. Be easy on yourself: many kids do not have your courage.</p>

<p>It will work out. And get a counselor if you can, not because there is anything “wrong” with you, but because you are choosing a hard path, or should I say, it is choosing you.</p>

<p>Things will work out and you will find you enjoy learning again, just as you enjoy reading all those books at the library. Good luck!</p>

<p>Editing to add, after reading posts that came on after I read the thread: it does seem as if addressing depression will help (a chicken and egg sort of situation). You do not need a big expensive evaluation for that. Psychiatrists and psychopharmacologists provide meds for depression, as do many primary care physicians. Taking meds might give you a window from which to better analyze your situation. If you are opposed to meds, as many of us are, at least at first, then you can try other kinds of therapists, either psychologist or social work clinician or nurse counselor. I am hoping your family has health insurance. Both primary care doctors and health insurance companies will provide names in your area. At a time like this, no matter how justified your emotional state, therapy can help a lot, and prevent you from going off on a life-altering tangent that you might not otherwise go on.</p>

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<p>Welcome to life, in which, in order to accomplish any goal, you may have to do some boring repetitive scutwork. Why do you let it get you down so? If it is indeed just scutwork from your point of view, why not just complete it and move on? Like I tell my kids – with all the time you spent complaining about something, you could have just done it and moved on.</p>

<p>PG:</p>

<p>I disagree with you. Tedious scutwork has its place but it has to be in the service of a worthwhile goal. Doing 20 exercises when 5, day in day out is enough is not. If my S had not been accommodated, I suspect I might have had a child like the OP–being advised to seek therapy. Our therapy consisted of accelerating him. Much cheaper for us, and much better for society at large.</p>

<p>I’m not sure why the (■■■■■) started the post…you already know the obvious answer…, you have to obtain a high school diploma to move-on— that’s the game we all play or don’t play. You can painfully (your description) suck it up and finish at your current school, or get a GED or online high school (which unless it’s stanford and the like-- is a joke).
What makes you think college will be any different-- there are requirements that are often “distasteful” in every setting. You already know that the colleges you would probably want to attend will not admit you unless you have transcript showing lots of rigorous coursework with solid performance–so I conclude you are a ■■■■■-- b/c you know the answer and no one is going to give you a blessing to drop out of high school. What will you do next-- sit all day and watch TV, play video games. Grow up!
(sorry that sounds harsh - but honestly -if you’re not a ■■■■■, get some professional adult help-- see your family physician and s/he isn’t helpful, call your local counseling center-- dropping out of high school is suicide with training wheels)</p>

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I had to shovel snow yesterday. How pointless! Soon it will all melt anyway! And yet…</p>