<p>Can we start a thread for advice for any parents of 8th or 9th graders that might be on this board? I went to all the meetings for parents and read everything that came home, but there were still so many things I didn't know. My first has been our guinea pig - we'll know so much for the second two kids.</p>
<p>Anyway, here is what I didn't know until the summer after Son's junior year: There are colleges that only consider UNWEIGHTED averages for admissions; some consider weighted averages for admission but unweighted for merit aid.</p>
<p>My son will have taken 11 heavily weighted AP classes by the time all is said and done. His unweighted GPA (and perhaps even his weighted GPA) would have been much better with fewer AP classes. They did NOT tell us this at school.</p>
<p>Big bump on that!! My D is in the same boat - lots of weighted APs, but unweighted they only look so-so, since our HS does not grade inflate at all, a college course is a college course! Even with the weight the ranking took a hit, some AP-capable students that did not take the courses are ranked above her (perhaps their parents already knew the lesson!) Hopefully schools will look past that and see the other things like National Merit status and test scores, for both of our sakes...I'll know better for the 8th grader!</p>
<p>Maybe I am not reading this correctly, but after months of lurking on this board and tours of 5 highly competitive LACs this summer, I thought rigor of high school program is at least as important as GPA. Are you saying that class rank with lower intensity classes would be better for admissions?</p>
<p>At our school, the freshman G/T kids can take a block that is AP Human Geo and pre-AP English. It is almost impossible to get an A in AP Human Geo. 60 kids took that block. We were talking to the teacher of the sophomore block (where it's not easy, but not impossible, to get an A) and she has 90 kids. So a full one third of the kids chose to get the A freshman year than to take the more challenging class and get a B. It probably looks the same on the weighted GPA but the kids who took the easier route will do better on the unweighted. I may well do this with the one who just started 7h grade!</p>
<p>The only general advice that I can give you is really twofold. First of all, let your kids still be kids. They have a while before things really get crazy. If they seem interested in "the process," then for sure go along with it, but if they couldn't care less, it's still OK for a couple more years. Secondly, I will tell you what my D said not too long ago. She is entering her second year in college, so we have a bit of a perspective. She is at an Ivy League school which she absolutely loves and which is absolutely the right place for her. Her dream came true. She said that everything that she ever did contributed to her getting into the school. If she had done less in her life, she wouldn't have made it. Maybe or maybe not, but it's something to note. So, encourage your kids to follow their dreams. Encourage their living a life they can be proud of, no matter what they are doing. That's probably a good advice for everyone. Colleges do care that applicants take a program that is appropriate for them. Don't force APs if the student is not able or willing to do the work. Colleges look at each HS profile when evaluating applications so that they can understand the context in which the application is made. They truly don't compare different schools. My best example of that is our young friend whose HS didn't offer any APs at all, and she is going to be a junior at Harvard. She did the best she could do, what she was interested in, what her dream was, in the context of the environment in which she grew up.</p>
<p>I believe that rigor is important to the top schools, but not so much as you work your way down the list. If your child is possible Ivy material, you probably have an inkling of that in middle school...at least, most of us know by middle school that our kids will NOT be Ivy material.</p>
<p>You might want to talk to the HS GC and ask what it takes at your HS for her to check the box that your child took the most rigorous courseload. Like I mentioned, my Son will have taken 11 AP classes. He should not have taken several of those....he didn't like them, wasn't good at them and the grade pulled down his GPA....however, he was "strongly encouraged" to take them. We, as parents, didn't know any better and just followed the advice. </p>
<p>As I look at the next one coming up - a daughter who started 10th grade today - if she takes only AP classes in subjects in which she'll probably do well - she will have 7 AP classes. I really think that should be more than good enough for wherever she wants to go.</p>
<p>Texas, of course, has the notorious "top 10% rule." Whether you get to the top 10% of your class by making high Bs in AP classes, or 100s in regular classes, doesn't seem to matter.</p>
<p>I agree.. "let the kids BE KIDS." They have the rest of their lives to be stressed out. Let them enjoy high school-- once it's gone, it's gone.</p>
<p>I enjoyed high school, but looking back I probably missed some things because I was always worried about this or worried about that. The second semester of my senior year was the most fun I had in high school. I had decided on school (not bigtime like I had originally hoped) and I was able to relax.</p>
<p>My #2 D will be a senior this year, and my lesson learned is to aim high and take advantage of the best that your HS has to offer, but be mindful of the workload and stress. Be ready to make mid-course corrections – quickly. Know your teachers, and when you run into a bad one switch your child out without hesitation.</p>
<p>Care to share any secrets for getting a child switched out of the class of a bad teacher? Last year my freshman had a terrible geometry teacher-there were many tests where the class average was below failing (and this was the pre-AP class). Plus he threw things and called them "retarded." I emailed the administration a lot about him, as did lots of other parents. I met with him and the department head. I met with the assistant principal with the specific request that my daughter be moved second semester. It didn't happen.</p>
<p>Just putting a note in that I have a rising freshman D. I will keep repeating my mantra that "middle school is practice, high school is real." but I hope that she will take it easy as my older D did and ease into HS. They both go to a private 6-12 school so most of the kids are the same (the classes do expand in grade 9) and many of the teachers. But the classes will be more rigorous and sports more time consuming. Older D did have a bit of a struggle (relative to later performance) at the beginning of freshman year and then turned it around. She also didn't join any activities until later during freshman year so not to overload herself. I will also not pressure younger D and have her concentrate on getting her classes solid as top priority.</p>
<p>We had a similar experience with a criminally incompetent teacher. Our school administration is unsympathetic when you make a request to switch to the same class with a different teacher. As you experienced, they close ranks when you come to them with a personal complaint about a teacher. So, we had to switch her from an Honors section to an Academic section for the subject to get her away from the teacher – sacrificing the higher weight of the grade. We also saw big problems in one particular language department, and switched her to a different language after her freshman year. So, no tricks here – just playing the hand you are dealt as best you can, and finding the strengths of the school and avoiding the weaknesses.</p>
<p>That is what quite a few kids/parents did-switched their child from pre-AP to regular to get them out. (Perhaps as many as 1/3 of the class.) The great news is that this horrible tenured teacher was "recruited" to go to a new charter school, so our problem is now their problem.</p>
<p>My 8th grader, my 3rd, is so far from thinking about any of this that it is unreal. Absolutely no decisions are being made based on what her HS schedule will look like. My priority with her is to help her to take charge of all this as I will be too tired and old to deal with it when she is a senior...So, I am watching her make mistakes and realize that she can cope and that the world does not fall apart after a bad grade on a math quiz. Her new school has a 'parent snooping' program which allows me to check her grades, constantly. It is a nightmare as far as I am concerned. She is not the student her brothers were, but she is a passionate artist and wonderful poet. She will be fine.</p>
<p>This may sound like a very technical detail, but you'll be glad of it later.</p>
<p>Inform yourself (not necessarily your child) about SAT Subject Tests. Read the information on ::</a> College Planning Made Easy | Inside Source for College Admissions Requirements. Look at the Web sites of colleges that your child might apply to and see whether SAT Subject Tests are required, and if they are, which ones are required for admission to which programs. Ask other parents (and eventually, teachers) which tests are good matches for your particular district's curriculum and which are not. </p>
<p>During the first two years of high school (and even in 8th grade, when it's time to pick out 9th grade classes), keep the SAT Subject Tests in mind, especially if you think that there's any chance that your child may be applying to highly selective colleges. Your child may not be in "thinking about college" mode until 11th grade, but it helps if you are. </p>
<p>Sometimes, kids who don't take SAT Subject Tests into account when choosing their courses find themselves in a position where they aren't adequately prepared for these tests when the time comes. For example, a kid who drops his foreign language early, takes social studies courses on topics for which there are no subject tests, and doesn't take the most rigorous science courses available would have difficulty finding anything any Subject Tests that he's prepared for other than Math. Yet many colleges require 2 or 3 subject tests. </p>
<p>Other times, students miss opportunities to take SAT Subject Tests that they could have done well on because they took the relevant courses in grade 9 or 10, weren't thinking about Subject Tests yet, and they didn't bother to take the test. At my daughter's high school, for example, many top students take AP U.S. History in 10th grade. This course provides excellent preparation for the SAT U.S. History Subject Test, but a lot of the kids don't take that test because they aren't thinking about Subject Tests yet. </p>
<p>I think it may be asking too much of kids to figure this stuff out for themselves -- the decisions happen while they're still getting used to high school and not really thinking about college. But it's not too much for a parent to figure it out.</p>
<p>Let the kids be kids. But give them opportunities to pursue interests outside of the classroom where you can.
Do not let the school push the student into an easier courseload.
Understand the importance of SATII for highly selective admissions.
Understand the various 'tracks' in your system, if any, at the begining.
Get to know the Guidance Department and try to work with them.
Do not assume that a teenager - even a motivated one - can always read between the lines of the messages given them by guidance: sometimes you - the parent - will need to advocate and clarify.</p>
<p>I had never even heard of SATII subject tests before I heard of them last school year on CC. By then, Son had already take AP World History; it would have been so easy for him to have taken the SAT II subject test at the same time as the AP exam. We did have him take the US History exam at the same time he took the APUSH exam. I tried to spread the word, but he was the only one who did it.</p>
<p>SATIIs don't exist as far as our Newsweek Top 100 school is concerned.</p>
<p>A lot of selective programs and colleges also look at number of AP and Honors classes on transcript. In my D. HS, it was not allowed to take more than 3
AP classes a year and it was not allowed to take classes outside of school. So, you need to follow whatever the rules are and still maintain as high GPA as possible with as many APs as possible. A lot of academic scholarships and Honors programs are based on class ranking even if school does not rank like my D's. I asked this question during one of the Honors information sessions. The answer was that college still calculates rank if school does not provide it. It is calculated based on student GPA and class profile that schools that do not rank have to provide to colleges. So, if somebody has perfect 4.0 uw without APs, he will not make ranking when a lot of others have 4.0 uw with tons of APs.</p>
<p>1) Grades matter, even in 9th grade. If there is a problem with any class bring it to our attention as soon as possible.
2) Take high level classes, but no need to take the toughest. Take honors for as many classes as possible, but there is no need to skip 2-3 levels and get a B or C.
3) Start practing SATs, so you'll know what you do not know for those tests. Be prepared to take subject tests and APs the same year you have those classes.
4) Pick up a sport. My younger one is a very good runner, but has spent most of her time doing ballet. We are going to encourage to try out for the team if it's not going to hurt her feet for ballet. Adcoms can relate much easier to sports than to ballet. Our older daughter's passion for ballet did not earn any points for her.<br>
5) Not going to talk about what college she may be interested in until much later. Not going to fall in love with any school.
6) After she has done everything possible, then we'll just need to take on a Zen attitude - whatever will be, will be.</p>
<p>Post 15 is spot on. I had been involved in Ss' schooling since kindergarten, so I got to know their teachers. Ss were lucky to have mostly great teachers. Make sure that the GCs know your child and vice-versa. S1's GC suggested great colleges for S1 to apply to; S2's GC worked very hard to find S2 an appropriate course schedule.</p>
<p>If your school encourages parental involvement, try to be involved, and not just on behalf of your child. Teachers appreciate that. At least, those at our schools did and do.</p>
<p>Since we're getting into the topic of SAT Subject Tests, here are a few specific pointers:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>For cumulative subjects, such as foreign language, it's best to take the test at the latest possible time so you are as well prepared as possible. For example, my daughter, who took AP Spanish Language in 11th grade but was not planning to take further Spanish in 12th grade, took the test at the end of 11th grade. (By the way, the curve on the SAT Spanish Test is very low because so many native speakers take the test. I wouldn't recommend that a non-native speaker take the test with anything less than AP Spanish as preparation.)</p></li>
<li><p>Math Level II is best taken immediately after the student finishes precalculus (or whatever your school system calls the math course that immediately precedes calculus), even if this happens in 9th grade. A lot of the content of this test consists of material from the precalculus course, so it's best to take it while the subject matter is still fresh in the student's mind.</p></li>
<li><p>A student cannot take an SAT Subject Test on the basis of a 12th grade course. It's too late. Thus, when deciding which courses to take in 11th grade and which courses to take in 12th grade, keep the Subject Tests in mind. For example, if a student is interested in taking both AP Microeconomics/Macroeconomics and AP U.S. History, the student would be better off taking the U.S. History course (which provides excellent preparation for the U.S. History Subject Test) in 11th grade and the Economics course (which has no corresponding Subject Test) in 12th grade, rather than doing it the other way around.</p></li>
<li><p>For Biology and Chemistry, students who take two years of the subject before taking the SAT Subject Test (this usually means the regular course and the AP course) are better prepared than those who only have one year. This means that for students who want to take one of these tests, it is best to take the AP course in 11th grade rather than 12th.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>From a purely pedagogical point of view, it might make better sense to take biology in grade 9, chemistry in grade 10, physics in grade 11, and AP biology or chemistry in grade 12, but from an SAT Subject Test point of view, it is better to switch the 11th and 12th grade sciences, taking the AP course in 11th and plain old physics in 12th.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>High school curricula do NOT necessarily cover all the material on the SAT Subject Tests. Because only a relatively small proportion of high school students take these tests, the people who design curricula do not necessarily pay much attention to them. They have other priorities. Before your child signs up for any SAT Subject Test, ask around to see whether kids from your particular district do well on that particular test (and maybe also have the child try a practice test from a test preparation book). If kids in your district don't do well, it's probably because of a mismatch between the curriculum that's actually taught and the one that's assumed by the testmakers. In that case, the student might want to choose a different test or study the missing material on his/her own before taking the test.</p></li>
<li><p>The SAT Subject Test in U.S. History is virtually identical to the multiple-choice section of the AP U.S. History test. So anyone who takes AP U.S. History prior to 12th grade and does well in the course is likely to be well prepared for the Subject Test as well (especially if kids in your district tend to score high on the AP test). This is a gift from the gods. Don't overlook it.</p></li>
<li><p>No college requires more than three Subject Tests. Most colleges require only two. Some colleges or programs specify which two (this particularly applies to engineering programs, which may specify a math test and a physical science). Some say math and one other test. Some say any two or any three. I know of no advantage in taking more tests than necessary. Some kids on these boards take five or six subject tests. Except for homeschoolers, for whom these tests provide objective evidence of their preparation that is available in no other way, I don't see the point in this.</p></li>
</ol>