Advice for doubling up - Geometry & Algebra 2

<p>My D wants to double up next year in Geometry and Algebra 2 but I am not totally on board yet and have to decide in a few days.</p>

<p>She is currently performing at a B+/A- level in Algebra 1. She was quite busy with 2 winter sports and therefore we saw a dip in grades but now that that is done with, she has gotten better scores ...90%+ grades. Summer school is not an option since our school does not accept coursework from other sources.</p>

<p>If you had a child or have experience yourself doubling up, would like to hear! Her guidance counselor said it's a 50/50 chance that students doubling up will do well or not. It seems that certain kids do well in Algebra and not in Geometry, and vice versa. Or some can do well in both. I read that if you are able to memorize theorems and rules, that Geometry would be fine. </p>

<p>Personally, I would rather her not double up and end up with Pre-calculus in her senior year. Use her time to just focus on getting her GPA up. Currently her GPA is 3.2. </p>

<p>Appreciate your pearly words of wisdom! :)</p>

<p>They are pretty much independent of each other, so as far as that goes I would not see a problem.</p>

<p>I’m a senior taking AP Calculus this year. Assuming that’s her goal, to get into calculus in twelfth grade, I would not recommend it. Obviously, I don’t know her, so I don’t know how easily mathematical concepts come to her. But the entire year of calculus is spent introducing complicated new concepts that rely heavily on the trigonometry introduced in geometry and that require a thorough understanding of algebraic concepts like graph analysis, modeling, and equation manipulation. That sort of back-and-forth, inside-out knowledge, if she’s an average math student like I am, requires repetition, which is why they space out algebraic and geometric concepts over such a long period of time at school (or so I assume). For her GPA’s sake, not only for these two courses but also for her later scores in precalculus and calculus, I would suggest just taking one math class each year so that she can be more confident in her understanding of those concepts – UNLESS she strongly desires an introduction and some practice in calculus before college. Even then I would not recommend it, but I can understand being willing to sacrifice high school GPA for undergraduate GPA.</p>

<p>

They are pretty much independent of each other but I personally found both significantly more difficult than Algebra I (after I got the concept of an unknown which took a little while). Of course, that was about 45 years ago, and we did a lot of proofs. THey were a real pain in Geometry AFAIC. Not sure if they do that anymore.</p>

<p>My son doubled up and did not have a problem. Math is a strength for him though. I am not saying it was easy, but he did get A’s in both classes. </p>

<p>I think it depends on the student and whether or not they are up to the challenge. Though they are both math courses, as the poster above noted, they are very different.</p>

<p>Without knowing your daughter, it is hard to say. I can only relate my experience which was positive.</p>

<p>I wouldnt recommend it for the reasons cmcyanide states and because they are so different ( IMO, someone who is good at geometry can struggle w algebra & vice versa)) that it would be difficult to switch back & forth in your thinking patterns.</p>

<p>Ending high school math @ precalc/ statistics wont limit her choice of majors if that is what she is concerned about.
It will be better to get a deeper understanding, rather than broader- especially in mathematics.</p>

<p>My son took Algebra 1 and Geometry during the same year with no problem. Geometry was actually online, in addition to his regular course schedule, and taught over a semester so at double pace. He is not a math wiz but worked hard and ended up with A’s in both courses. He went on his soph year to Alg2/Trig. The goal was to get to Calc AB his Sr. year, which he could not have done without doubling up. Every student is different, but his experience was a good one. I would recommend any student that is looking towards competitive admissions, or a degree in STEM, make a goal of getting to Calc AB by their Sr. year.</p>

<p>We have many students who double up - Alg 2 and Geom are where it can be done. It’s seldom a bad option except for poor math students. The courses are different enough that it’s akin to taking 2 history courses at the same time. I can’t say I’ve ever heard the complaint about not being able to switch (math) subjects in the mind before this thread. Most students will prefer one course or the other and/or be better at one or the other, but that happens even when they are taken sequentially.</p>

<p>I agree for STEM, having Calc in high school is a good thing - repeating that in college is often good as well as many colleges go deeper than high schools.</p>

<p>We were advised that if going to double at some point, that was the best combo. The outcome was positive for our family.</p>

<p>That’s a pretty common thing to do the only caveat being some student for reasons I’ve never really understood do fine in algebra and have huge difficulties with geometry - this may have been more common in the proof heavy days, but it make just be a matter of being strong at spacial thinking. I loved geometry and was really good at it. (And became an architect.) I was good at algebra, but didn’t like it nearly as much. I do think it’s handy to get exposed to Calculus in high school - and if you have any notion going into a field that requires it (economics, engineering any science among others) you will really be at a disadvantage in college if you haven’t had the exposure.</p>

<p>If she has a 3.2 now, I would not recommend taking them both at the same time–unless she has a LOT of time for homework–which she probably won’t have for part of the year if she is still doing the same 2 winter sports.
It will be too much new information at once–and this is in addition to all her other classes. Algebra II is where many students start to struggle. It takes a lot of time to work all the problems and really know how to do them when tested.
(I am a math tutor–biggest problem my students have is thinking they can just skim over a few sample problems and move on to the next lesson. But if they don’t actually “DO the math”–drilling the different types of problems over and over–they can’t remember it on test day.)</p>

<p>Thank you all for your advice! My daughter is pretty average math student, typically she would fluctuate between A/B+ throughout her school years. So other than that, it’s hard to tell how she will do. As a matter of fact, I would say she is an average B student overall. I have been trying to scour the posts from previous posters here and other sites and trying to find out what everyone’s experience has been and it’s been pretty much also 50/50. Though I suspect the typical CC kid would do better and more driven. She’s still a freshman so not sure what her interests will be. Right now nothing. Though surprisingly she does wants this. </p>

<p>I do see that having had some Calculus in high school would be a good thing. I believe in a good overall high school education no matter what a student want to major in in college. However, I also believe that a student should have a solid understanding of the core subjects and don’t want her to rush into things. </p>

<p>Where I could see that may be some difficulty for her is the theorems and proofs in geometry. What percentage of geometry would be proofs and theorems?</p>

<p>If she takes only one math course, what other course would she take instead of the second math course? Would it be correct to assume that she likes math more than the subject of the other course?</p>

<p>If she didn’t take the math course she would be taking an elective. So the Algebra 2 is actually taking up an elective spot. Taking an elective which most likely be an easier course, will probably bring her GPA up.</p>

<p>Her course load for next year (sophomore) looks like this:
Chemistry
Spanish II Honors
US History I
English
Geometry
Algebra 2 (or elective)</p>

<p>Back then in the dark ages I did geometry and algebra together. It was only recently through my kids that I saw the separation. Actually, a very competitive high school in my area changed last year and they are piloting a new program that in 9th grade they alternate geometry and algebra. I never thought that there was a reason behind the spacing. I assumed it was more scheduling/logistics type of reasoning.</p>

<p>In our school, that is the only time kids can double in math (geometry and algebra II) so it seems to be the norm. It is well advised for kids that weren’t so serious in middle school but now got their motivation and studying up and doing well.</p>

<p>Can your daughter use the summer to prepare a bit? If she can have a short course on geometry during the summer (with tutoring or a summer school option or even with a book or online ) then at least she will not have to learn all the concepts anew in the winter. A friend of mine did this last summer and her daughter did very well. </p>

<p>About grades you have to know your kid. My son does better when he is busy and challenged. In easy classes he overestimates himself and gets lazy while in challenging classes he keeps up.</p>

<p>Also in hour school you have to be recommended by the math teacher to do this. Did you talk to you daughter’s teacher?</p>

<p>^I am from the dark ages too then! We also did geometry and algebra together but I was brought up in the European system and it was known nondescriptly as Math 1 and Math 2. However, I recall not being strong in both so I think I won’t be of any help to her if she needs help next year. We were actually planning on enrolling her for summer school in Geometry if she were to double up. She usually does not do anything productive in the summer so this was something we would do and she agreed to this.</p>

<p>At our school you also have to be recommended by the teacher to double up. The teacher does not want to say ‘yay’ or ‘nay’ yet until the end of the term in June, probably due to her dip in grades midterm. She wants to see that she is able to finish the rest of the year strong. However, course submissions are due in a few days and if you did not get a recommendation from the teacher, you are not allowed to drop the course if your child does not do well. I suspect most schools are like that, except for privates. They do that so you won’t have tons of kids signing up and then dropping out half way causing havoc in a large school system.</p>

<p>Is there some compelling reason to double up? If not, don’t do it unless a kids just loves math. Use that elective spot for a real elective. D2 took a culinary arts class. No, not difficult. Doubt it will impress anybody, but it was VERY useful. I’m thinking a basic sewing class would’ve been a fine idea as well. Or how about something she just likes? Pottery? Or wood shop? (My high school, also back in the stone ages, offered ag classes.)</p>

<p>Where I live the kids get ahead in Math by taking a class over the summer. So if she just took one of them for the school year and then the second one next summer she could get ahead in math without jeopardizing her school year by having the two math classes at the same time.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I’d be discussing this situation with the teacher and asking for honest advice.</p>

<p>I know I’d be in favor of it if your d is at all STEM interested, but it’s not so important if not. As for my background… I’ve been in high school (teaching) doing math/science for 14 years now… plus have 3 kids of my own. Two of those are in college now. The third is a senior next year. None of mine doubled up, but the older two did Alg 1 in 7th grade, the youngest in 8th, so none had a need to double up. In “my” perfect world all (normal math students) would be taking Alg 2 and Geom at the same time in order to keep both subjects fresh in the mind for testing (PSAT, ACT, SAT) and pre-calc. Otherwise, whichever is taken first tends to slide in the brain.</p>